Design Rules (General) - Armour Conversions (HG, TNE, T4)

By: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>

Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>

sinbad@dfw.net <sinbad@dfw.net>

From: traveller@mpgn.com [Digest 631, 633, 914, 928]

Dated: Tue, 29 Oct 96

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Subject: [Traveller Answer] Armor Values

[Derek's comments, 631]

Robert Flammang <FLAMMANG@vms.cis.pitt.edu> wrote:

> Thanks for your very informative post on converting armor and penetration from QSDS to T4 personal combat.

You're welcome! It's always nice to hear feedback about the answers I give; I often wonder if they are too detailed or not detailed enough.

> But I would like to ask on behalf of the Striker and High Guard holdouts on the list how to convert these armor values too.

OK, sure ... To hook things into everyting else, here's the Striker (original, 1981 edition) and High Guard (second edition) data:

High Guard USP	Striker Armor	CM Steel Equivalent
0	40	33.6
1	64	269
2	67	349
3	70	453
4	72	538
5	74	640
6	76	761
7	77	830
8	78	905
9	79	987
A	80	1080
B	81	1170
C	82	1280
D	83	1400
E	84	1520
F	85	1660

For lower amounts of Striker armor (such as personal and vehicle armor), the following table should assist you with conversions:

Striker Armor	CM Steel Equivalent
1	0.25
2	0.50
3	0.75
4	1.00
5	1.25
6	1.50
7	1.75
8	2.00
9	2.25
10	2.50
15	3.86
20	5.95
25	9.17
30	14.1
35	21.8

> Actually, if you could just tell us how to convert from T4 armor/penetration to the equivalent centimeters of steel plate, we could do the rest ourselves.

There are three (yes, three) armor scales running around in T4. They are all related, and relatively easy to convert to centimeters of steel.

1) the Quick Ship Design System uses the USP armor rating (note that the T4/QSDS USP number is different from the old High Guard USP number). These convert into hard steel using the following table:

T4 USP	CM Steel
0	10
10	20
20	40
30	80
40	120
50	160
60	200

The QSDS/T4 armor scale exists because the mechanics of the T4 basic space combat system require it. It's not related to the personal and vehicle combat system because that would have complicated the design of the game at a time when more complications would have made parts of it (probably the starship design sequence) too late to be included.

Future starship combat systems may use the USP armor value directly, or may use it divided by 10. For T:TNE owners out there, the T4 value divided by 10 is the same as the Battle Rider armor value.

2) The Standard Ship Design System (in the forthcoming Starships book)

uses an "armor level" or "armor value" for the hull that is chosen when the hull is designed (this armor level is multiplied by factors relating to the hull chosen to determine the armor volume and mass). Although it is not described in the SSDS design sequence, this "armor level" is the armor's equivalent in centimeters of hard steel.

SSDS should also use the USP armor rating system as the final result, and the table given above for the QSD system is also approximately correct for SSDS-designed hulls.

The SSDS armor level exists as an easy interim unit for performing calculations; it is not currently being used by any T4 combat rules. This value is also the same as the Fire, Fusion, and Steel armor value, which was expressed in equivalent cm of hard steel.

3) The personal-scale and vehicle-scale combat system uses a different armor value scale, designed to mesh well with weapon and attribute values in the personal combat system. Vehicle armor using this scale is detailed in the forthcoming Central Supply Catalog book.

To convert T4 personal-scale or vehicle-scale armor ratings to the equivalent in centimeters of steel, divide the armor value by 6, and cube the result. The following table summarizes a variety of useful armor values:

T4 Armor	CM Steel
1	0.005
2	0.04
3	0.13
4	0.30
5	0.58
6	1.00
7	1.59
8	2.37
9	3.38
10	4.63
15	15.6
20	37.0
25	72.3
30	125
35	198
40	296

I hope this helps you with all of your conversions; and it should also explain how I generated the table I gave in my last post, which related T4 USP values to T4 personal and vehicle armor ratings.

I should close by noting that High Guard starships may turn out to have radically different armor values (when converted to equivalent centimeters of hard steel) than T4 starships. I recommend choosing one system and sticking with it, instead of trying to mix starship design sequences.

Guy "wildstar" Garnett

Traveller Answer Team

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Subject: CT to T4 armor conversion

[Robert's comments, 633]

Hi.

Guy Garnett was kind enough to give us some values for converting T4

armor ratings into thicknesses of steel plate. I asked him to do this

and promised this list a table for converting High Guard and Striker

armor values to T4's. Here it is.

This is for those of us who want to run T4 games with all the

equipment we used in previous (CT) games.

Note that my High Guard armor values are different from those that Guy

posted. This is because the language used in the Striker errata was

ambiguous; it can be interpreted in two different ways.

The columns are:

1) The striker penetration value. This number is roughly compatable to

the penetration value found in MegaTraveller.

2) The High Guard armor USP rating as interpreted by me (Rob).

3) The High Guard armor USP as interpreted by Guy (Wildstar).

4) The T4 personal armor rating (in dice).

5) The QSDS and RPSC armor rating from T4's Universal Ship Profiles.

(Note: This table contains Tabs. Tabbing is set to 8 spaces.)

Striker	HG USP	HG USP	T4	T4 USP
pen.	(Rob)	(Guy)	(pers.)	(QSDS)
1			4
2			5
3			5
4			6
5			6
6			7
7			7
8			8
9			8
10			8
11			8
12			9
13			9
14			9
15			9
16			10
17			10
18			10
19			11
20			11
21			11
22			12
23			12
24			12
25			13
26			13	0
27			13	1
28			14	3
29			14	4
30			14	5
31			15	6
32			15	7
33			16	9
34			16	10
35			17	11
36			17	13
37			18	14
38			18	15
39			19	16
40	0	0	19	17
41	0	0	20	19
42	0	0	21	20
43	0	0	21	21
44	1	0	22	23
45	1	0	22	24
46	1	0	23	25
47	2	0	24	26
48	2	0	24	28
49	2	0	25	29
50	3	0	26	10
51	3	0	27	12
52	4	0	27	14
53	4	0	28	16
54	5	0	29	18
55	5	0	30	21
56	6	0	31	24
57	7	0	32	27
58	8	0	33	30
59	9	0	33	34
60	10	0	34	38
61	11	0	36	42
62	12	0	37	47
63	13	0	38	52
64	14	1	39	57
65	15	1	40	63
66	16	1	41	70
67	17	2	42	77
68	18	2	43	85
69	19	2	45	94
70	20	3	46	103
71	21	3	47	113
72		4	49	125
73		4	50	137
74		5	52	150
75		5	53	165
76		6	55	180
77		7	56	197
78		8	58	216
79		9	60	237
80		10	61	260
81		11	63	283
82		12	65	310
83		13	67	339
84		14	69	371
85		15	71	405
86		16	73	443
87		17	75	484
88		18	77	528
89		19	80	577
90		20	82	630
91		21	84	688
92			87	751
93			90	820
94			92	895
95			95	978
96			98	1066
97			100	1164
98			103	1270
99			106	1386
100			110	1513

FORMULAS:

There are formulas for converting these armor values to the equivalent

thickness in steel plate. I used these formulas to make these tables.

"A" is the armor value. "T" is the thickness in centimeters of steel.

*** Striker Penetration:

Striker uses 1 inch steel plate as its standard. For armor less than 1 inch

thick, Striker uses a linear progression with A=10 equal to 1 inch. So

A=1 is one tenth of an inch and so on. For armor thicker than an inch,

Striker uses an octave binary progression (it doubles in steps of eight)

so 18 = 2 inches, 26 = 4 inches, 34 = 8 inches, etc.

For penetration values less than ten, the thickness in cm of steel

is:

T = 0.25 * A

For values of "A" larger than 10, then "T" is:

T = 2.5 cm * 2^( (A - 10)/8 )

where the "^" sign is the exponential operator (like in BASIC),

equivalent to FORTRAN's "**".

*** High Guard:

High Guard uses a one to one correlation with Striker as shown on

the tables. Because of vaguely worded errata, there are (at least)

two interpretations for conversion, as was noted above.

*** T4 personal combat

As Guy mentioned, T4 uses the following formula:

T = (A/6)^3

*** QSDS Armor

For values of "A" smaller than 30:

T = 10 * 2^(A/10)

For values of "A" larger than 30:

T = 4 * A - 40

*********************************

Hope this helps all the other old CT holdouts on this

list 8^).

- -Rob

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Subject: [Traveller Answer] Armor Conversions

[Derek's comments, 914]

David JAQUES-WATSON asked:

> Can you please answer my [OFFICIAL] question below

Sure! Official questions, particularly about the various design systems

(QSDS, SSDS, and VDS) can be addressed to me, wildstar@qrc.com. Though

I'm behind in my e-mail, I'll try to give "Traveller Answers" to official

questions as promptly as possible (particularly if you indicate that it's a

Traveller rules question in your subject line).

Dave, could you please forward a copy of this to David? You didn't put his

e-mail address in your reply.

> >How does the armour in CSC (Central Supply Catalog) equate with the armour

> >in QSDS/SSDS/etc? And how do the weapons equate?

Dave is quite correct: they don't really equate. However, Greg Porter (the

author of CSC, and the designer of the T4 weapons and armor) has suggested a

procedure.

Dave Golden (goldendj@usa.net) wrote:

> [The conversion procedure suggested by Dave]

Greg Porter suggests in CSC that the armor be converted on the basis of

eqiuvalent thicknesses of hard steel. This procedure is a little easier

than the one Dave outlined (*). Here's the recommended (official)

conversion procedure for armor values:

1) If using QSDS (T4 starship) values, divide by 10 to get SSDS values.

2) Convert SSDS armor to cm of steel (eqivalent) using the table in SSDS.

3) Convert centimeters of steel to CSC (vehicle/personal) armor values

by taking the cube root of this value, and multiplying the result by 6.

You can convert starship weapons to the personal/vehicle scale by taking the

short-range damage value by the same procedure. NOTE that QSDS (T4

starship) weapon damage values do NOT need to be divided by 10 (just armor

values).

I've prepared a table to handle most of the conversions you'll need in

the typical Traveller game. Use the "SSDS Armor" column to convert

weapon penetrations. See below.

David JAQUES-WATSON asked:

>If I fire my CSC heavy tank's main gun at a starship, what happens?

You can use the following table to convert the armor values.

QSDS	SSDS	CM	T4
Armor	Armor	Steel	Armor
0	0	10	13
10	1	20	16
20	2	40	21
30	3	80	26
40	4	120	30
50	5	160	33
60	6	200	35
70	7	250	38
80	8	300	40
90	9	400	44
100	10	500	48
110	11	750	55
120	12	1000	60
130	13	1250	65
140	14	1500	69
150	15	1750	72
160	16	2000	76
170	17	2500	81
180	18	3000	87
190	19	3500	91
200	20	4000	95

Example: A starship is being fired on by a grav tank. The starship's USP

lists the armor as "20"; for purposes of resolving the fire, treat the

tank's target as (T4 personal/vehicle scale) armor value 21. If the tank

penetrates, the referee should implement an internal hit.

It's also worth remembering that starship weapons and vehicle weapons are

very different beasts (even though the converted penetration may be the

same). A laser-armed tank's main weapon fires a beam with a diameter

measured in centimeters. A starship turret weapon fires a beam nearly

a meter in diameter.

While the tank's laser may hole the starship, the starship's return fire is

going to put the tank in a whole new world of hurt. I'd suggest that small

(vehicle) weapons firing at starships:

1) Not reduce starship armor factors, and

2) Not produce critical hits.

For starships firing at vehicles, IF the vehicle's armor rating is higher

than the damage value of the weapon, then the referee should implement

massive surface damage (antennas melted, firing ports fused shut, etc) but

no penetration of the interior. If the starship's weapon penetrates the

armor of the vehicle, it's almost certainly toast.

For starships firing at personnel, the main question is wether or not there

are enough large pieces left to positively identify the casualty.

(*) Note: there are two valid approaches to converting between the armor

systems. Dave's approach is to re-rate the armor, as if the armor had

been constructed using the CSC (vehicle) rules. This approach will

result in different amounts of protection before and after the

conversion; thus, if 100cm of some type of armor were worth (say) a

meter of steel in one system, the same 100cm of armor may be worth

750cm of steel in the other system.

Greg's approach is to maintain the reletave protection of the armor, and

ignore the actual thickness of the material. This way, if the armor

was equivalent to (say) a meter of steel in one system, it would be

equivalent to a meter of steel in the other system. Greg's conversion

method has the additional advantages of being several steps shorter,

and it is possible to use this method when you don't know the type

of material the armor is made out of.

The table I included (above) was computed using Greg's method, and is

valid for any type of armor material.

Guy "wildstar" Garnett

Traveller Answer Team

wildstar@qrc.com

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Science-Fiction Adventure

In the Far Future

_____________

Subject: Re: [TML] materials

[sinbad's comments, 928]

At 08:41 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Jeff Brawley <brawleyj@UWSTOUT.EDU> wrote:

>Hello,

>

>The other day, the complete list of Materials from the CSC or other manual

>was posted. I in my infinite mindlessness forgot to save that digest.

>Could you please repost that if you read this, or send it to me direct. I

>would be very grateful.

>

>It had materials listed by toughness, price, weight, and TL.

>

>Thankyou in advance,

>

>Jeff Brawley

>

>

Jeff,

You have asked for it, I will repost it.

he following is a list of armor materials from TNE converted to CSC/VDS

armor values.

To convert your own the formula is:

ROUND(POWER((XX/TNE_Hard_Steel_Toughness),0.33)*CSC_Hard_Steel_Toughness,0.5)

XX is the TNE armor value that you wish to convert.

The formula is similar to the one that Greg used to convert from TNE to

CSC/VDS, he sent me a message on how he arrived at the armor values in CSC.

Some of these materials were aquired via web pages, and FTP sites.

Unfortunatley I do not remember them all, but Dave Golden is one of the web

pages.

Notes:

Electropolymorphic Synthetics is dual armor value due the greater armor

value is only when a 1Mw per m3 is applied.

Monodium is a crude attempt to approx the gray metal of the Ancients.

Obscenieum is armor for when your PC's need a lesson, I use it as benchmark

for obscene values.

Description	TL	Tough	Mass	Cost
Heavy wood	1	1	1	0.001
Iron	3	3	8	0.0016
Soft Steel	3	4	8	0.016
Hard Steel	5	6	8	0.02
Fiber Laminate	6	2	1	0.03
Fiberglass	6	3	1	0.001
Light Alloy	6	3	3	0.004
Aluminum Alloy	6	5	2.7	0.0037
Hardened Steel	6	6	7.8	0.0026
Titanium Alloy	6	6	4.9	0.0102
Titanium	6	7	8	0.01
Carbonfiber	7	4	1	0.002
Glass Composite	7	4	1.9	0.0099
Improved Aluminum Alloy	7	5	2.6	0.0042
Metallic Laminate	7	5	3.6	0.0042
Light composite	7	6	7	0.07
Super Steel Alloy	7	6	7.8	0.0052
Advanced Titanium Alloy	7	7	4.7	0.0111
Carbonfiber Compound	8	4	1	0.003
Composite Laminate	8	7	7	0.08
Graphite Composite	8	8	2.1	0.0595
Metalic Laminate Armor	8	9	11.1	0.0122
Advanced Carbonfiber	9	5	1	0.004
Aluminum Lithium Alloy	9	5	2.4	0.0046
Advance Metallic Laminate	9	6	4	0.0056
Metal Matrix Composite	9	6	2.6	0.0154
Ceramic Laminated Composite(CLC)	9	7	1.8	0.0500
Advanced Composites	9	9	9	0.009
Boron Composite	9	9	2	0.0875
Aluminum Lithium Foam	10	5	1.92	0.0049
Armourplast	10	5	1	0.006
Ceramic Matrix Composite	10	5	1.3	0.0240
Foam Steel Alloy	10	6	6.24	0.0034
Titanium Alloy Foam	10	6	3.995	0.0117
Synthetics	10	7	1.4	0.0804
Improved CLC	10	8	1.75	0.0729
Crystaliron	10	9	10	0.09
Composite Matrix Armor	10	10	9.54	0.0252
Structurecomp	11	3	1	0.04
Maxiplast	11	5	0.9	0.009
Metal Ceramic Alloy	11	7	2.22	0.0195
Reinforced Foam Aluminum Alloy	11	7	2.08	0.0249
Improved Synthetics	11	8	1.5	0.1125
Reinforced Foam Steel Alloy	11	8	5.968	0.0109
Reinforced Foam Titanium Alloy	11	8	3.9495	0.0342
Durallium	11	10	12	0.012
Improved Structural Synthetics	12	6	1.2	0.0213
Myomer	12	6	0.8	0.01
Improved Metal Ceramic Alloy	12	9	2.997	0.0311
Synthetic Armor	12	10	2	0.1477
Metal Ceramic Armor	12	11	6.4625	0.0406
Superdense	12	11	15	0.014
Improved Structurecomp	13	4	1	0.05
Advanced myomer	13	6	0.7	0.012
Metal Ceramic Alloy	13	6	2.725	0.0092
Advanced Superdense	13	13	15	0.021
Electropolymorphic Synthetics	13	8/16	1.5	0.3188
Polymer	14	7	0.6	0.014
Bonded Superdense	14	14	15	0.028
Advanced Structurecomp	15	6	1	0.06
Chain Polymer	15	7	0.55	0.016
Square Bonded Superdense	15	15	15	0.031
Long Chain Polymer	16	7	0.5	0.018
Collapsed Crytalline	16	13	13	0.022
Cube Bonded Superdense	16	16	15	0.033
Monomolecule	17	8	0.4	0.021
Coherent Superdense	17	16	15	0.035
Enhanced Coherent Superdense	18	17	15	0.052
Exotic Alloy I	18	19	13	0.1
Exotic Alloy II	22	22	10	0.25
Monodium	30	47	1	N/A
Obscenieum	40	100	0.1	N/A

Thats it for now.

Let me know what you think.

"Putting On Obscenieum Armor for flame protection"

Sinbad Sam

sinbad@dfw.net

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