Ideas Under Development

Much Ado About UWPs

Hmm. Actually, I'm finding that interesting. The "100---" worlds aren't all that surprising -- surely there would be plenty of them. But it's interesting that the data, as given, suggest a peculiar culture favoring such worlds.

What if we were to interpret these profiles as indicating a culture or social class which for some reason favored small, airless worlds, strongly discouraged population sizes outside the tens of thousands, and organized itself in oligarchies? Nobles with "desert palaces" like Herod's Masada, or enclaves withdrawing into communal societies...

Before we abandoned published data, I'd be *very* interested in exploring what sorts of societies might produce these results. We might wind up with an interesting minor race.

Allan Johnson

That's an interesting approach. As Keith has already pointed out, Delphi clearly has some kind of indigenous culture, one that was different enough that it mounted a solid -- if futile -- resistance against Imperial rule in the early days of the Third Imperium.

That's definitely one way to save the UWPs we have and make it work for us. What do others think?

James Maliszewski

I really think we could have something here!  In the early days of the 
Imperium the dominant starfaring culture (hence the mainworld status of 
these worlds) is our mysterious unexplained culture.  What about all those 
other worlds in each system.  They may be minor in that they are not 
mainworlds, but they may not be minor in terms of population, etc.  In 
fact we could have a whole lot of "normal" worlds that would ordinarilly 
by now be major worlds in their own right.  I could imagine a hotbed of 
seething resentment below the surface we are seeing.  Maybe what we are 
about to see in Delphi is an upset to the established order within the 
Sector!!  Maybe that's why the Sector is suddenly so interesting to the 
TAS! 

How about generating a series of paralell mainworlds for these 'anomolous' 
systems using the current starport grading, and gas giant, planetoid belt 
and other unchangeable system data as a solid given and then see what pops 
up.  This way we get the best of both worlds, both new and old data and a 
ready made conflict potentially waiting to erupt! 

JB

John B Mee
Contact at jbmee@bigpond.com


At 18:49:20, Oct 10, 2000, Keith Johnson (keith@sjgames.com) wrote:
> Well, only thing you need is a culture that values 
> small density/low gravity environments.  Perhaps a culture 
> that thrived in Asteroid belts?  

I like this a lot.  There's at least a dozen "100---" objects in Sol 
system; all you need is a star with exploitable asteroids, then look for a 
big rockball for home base.

We could also deduce that for a long period this culture had no access to 
gravity control or thruster plates; with delta-V at a premium, large 
gravity wells were unappealing.

By now, even if the culture isn't genetically adapted to low gravity, all 
its members are physically adapted.  There could be earthlike worlds in 
the same system, but this culture wouldn't look twice at them.  Far too 
much gravity, and all that *weather*...

They might easily, as Darryl suggests, be descended from survivors of the 
Ancients' wars.  Or just as easily isolated human societies, descendants 
of rebels after the Solomani expansion.

As for facing Sylea in the Pacification Wars -- an asteroid belt is just 
so *big* -- rather like a Ringworld with gaps.

"Mainworld," I think, is not a physically given datum.  Even the "most 
desirable" world in a system depends on what you're looking for.  An 
asteroid civilization, with uneasy dominance over scattered garden worlds 
which don't necessarily have any common bond with each other... that sets 
up *lots* of interesting possibilities.

Allan

The software used to generate some of this material was possessed of . . . 
certain inadequacies, shall we say.

Loren Wiseman

1. Start with the Atlas dot-map.
2. Add the genie data.
3. Check if the genie data appears broken. For example, make sure the star 
classifications have been fixed.
4. Make changes only if the data appears broken. To do this, first run the 
proposal past the board. Any change must have a reason, be generated 
correctly by the rules, and be internally consistent.

Hyphen

I think this is the best proposal. If I am reading the consensus properly, 
most people want to keep the old data, with a few tweaks here and there. I 
am all for this approach, since folks have already begun to develop some 
really neat ideas about Delphinian (is that the word?) culture. I'd just 
as soon keep what we've got and dispense with the occasional world rather 
than restarting the whole sector.

I am increasingly inclined to let Anthony use his program to regenerate 
the offending stuck-in-the-groove UWPs as an experiment. He could then 
post them new data to a website and we could look over them carefully 
before deciding whether we prefer the new ones or the old ones.

James Maliszewski

On Names

However, I don't really like most of the names in the sector and would 
really like to change some of them. Any objections to that?

James Maliszewski

Do you think some of the names are silly, or just the character of the 
names in general? I like the Terran flavor of the names, and think that 
might fit the character of these Delphinians. 
However, I'm not up on my history of this area. Can someone point me to any 
on-line summaries of this area through time? 

Could we change a name as we develop the sector (i.e. let work with hex
location and if someone wants to rename a system they are working on or
refering to, let them)?

Bob Kovalchick
Sociology-4, JOT-3
rkfm@wbgh.org

That's the approach I was going to suggest: we can keep the names as 
placeholders until someone develops them. Then, the name can be changed if 
a better alternate can be suggested. I think this will resolve the 
headaches and ensure that there remains a good mix of names in the sector.

James Maliszewski

It's easy to do, IMHO, especially if you throw out all the old UWPs, which 
I advocate.  The only things that change are Pop, Gov't, Law, TL, and 
Port, (though Atmo could become tainted).  You can alwasy back track from 
a current UWP, but then you to keep track with the history of all the 
other worlds that might have dealings with one, to be consistent.

I suggest this:

Generate Size, Atmo, Hydro, Belt, Gas, Stars.
Generate the rest for Pre-Contact.
Analyze the area.  Decide what major actors in the region might
do next, i.e., which systems to develop heavily, which indigenous cultures 
to avoid or destroy, etc.
(Optional:  them progress things, or regress them for the nadir of the 
Long Night.)
Then move forward to Contact.
Then Current.

Doing this, you can map the history of the sector.  You don't have to 
detail things beyond the UWP for eras you're not concerned about.  Just 
progress them, with perr review, to the present and see what you end up 
with.

Steve Daniels 

On History

My thoughts...

Lots of *100434-* worlds, too many Terran Ethnic names, etc...
I actually like a blend of the ideas we're seeing.  I don't have my
resources handy, and I forget what the government codes represent, so
forgive any error in that regard.  But, to present:

Delphi was ground zero during the Ancients war, lots of dead garden worlds,
moreso than in other sectors.

Time passes, the 1st Imperium arrives, and the Villani settle on remaining
garden worlds.  (Gives James a chance to add in more Villani names).  Fuel
depots and not much else are established in the decimated systems..thus
they probably aren't named, but just given numerical designations by the
Vilani.

More time passes, the Interstellar Wars happen, and waves of
Terrans/Solomani arrive.  In addition to settling on the mostly-Vilani
garden worlds, some of these Rugged Individualists note the presence of
bountiful mineral resources in the astroid belts left in the decimated
systems.  People move in, and belter societies develop in these systems,
with all the attendant (stereotypical?) idiosyncracies..strange names,
limited governments, etc.

More time passes, the Rule of Man collapses.  The Belter colonies that
survive maintain a certain measure of their technology..after all, anyone
that slips below TL7 is going to die.  Given the Long Night, a tradition of
a combination of self reliance and mutual dependance develops, not to
mention a cultural stubborness...after all, anyone who didn't want to stick
it out would head to one of those cushy garden spots the Vilani are settled
on.  Where interstellar communications still exists, a loose trade
federation develops.

The Long Night ends, and the 3I's pacification campaigns reach Delphi.  The
reintegration of the garden worlds probably follows the normal pattern. 
The Belter Societies are a different problem, however.  The Belters can't
beat the 3I..there just plain aren't enough of them, and space colonies are
just so vulnerable.  On the other hand, the Belters are just so bloody
spread out in their systems that the 3I is going to have a very long,
frustrating time bringing in these people.  A negotiated settlement brings
in the majority of the Solomani-descended Belter Societies as a seperate
culture, coexisting with the planet-settled Villani worlds.  

This allows for interesting dynamics later on, during the Solomani Rim War
period, for instance.

How does this work?

Tracy Preas 

Very nice indeed. We have a solid framework here. Some of the specifics 
might need to be reworked here and there, but overall this is a great 
outline for a really interesting sector, one that -- although a frontier --
 would feel very different from the Marches.

I like it a lot.

James Maliszewski

Yes this is great.  we have to be carful: ground 0 for ancents means 
theres going to be an urge to put in too much ancent stuff...  we must be 
extra weary when it comes to ancent sites..

Christopher Schroeder

> Either we've got a number of systems where the garden worlds are 
> being ignored, or they just aren't there.

"Ignored" would be a real possibility.  If you (and your ancestors for n 
generations) had grown up in free fall or worlds the size of Mercury, a 1G 
gravity well would be unappealing...  Months of physical therapy before 
you could stand up, water falling out of the sky unpredictably, unexpected 
air currents...

Allan

True, if the folks who grew up in free fall were the only ones moving into
the system.  We then need to figure out why the garden worlds are being
ignored by those who might otherwise move there who grew up in a standard
terran-style environment.  I can think of a few right off...lack of
resources, unattractive enironmental features that don't show up in the
UWP..

Tracy Preas 

... unfrendly local free-fallers.....

Christopher Schroeder

The Ancients seem to have ranged way beyond Known Space (this is being
reinfoerced by the canon in the AR books - David Pulvers Dyson Sphere comes
to mind in AR3).

So we need a reson to make it ground zero....

Bad thought : Make a portion of the Reft an artifact of the Ancients. Have
one of the Grandkids (or more of them) experiment on some part of the Reft,
it goes horiblly wrong, anoys Grandad, which triggers the Ancients War.

The reft can have a higher consentration of stellag gasses , and could even
be a nebula is astronomically possable. I am thinking of someing that makes
the Darrian Star Killer seem like a pop gun : say 5-10 stars exploging over
a 10 year period.

If we put 3 of the kiddies there, and have them totally obliterated (to
avoid any chirper/droyne canon clashes), it makes an intresting nugget.

It could also encourage the history of those rift world : Why are they
occupied? (Answer : Gas mining)



> More time passes, the Interstellar Wars happen, and waves of
> Terrans/Solomani arrive.  In addition to settling on the mostly-Vilani
> garden worlds, some of these Rugged Individualists note the presence of
> bountiful mineral resources in the astroid belts left in the decimated
> systems.  People move in, and belter societies develop in these systems,
> with all the attendant (stereotypical?) idiosyncracies..strange names,
> limited governments, etc.

If we make Delphi a backwater, we can postulate that the Solomani Diaspora
into Delphi was from people who valued their freedom (think rednecks and
survivalists...) We could even have Delphi such a backwater that it was
administrated from Massilla or Core, leaving bitter taste in the mouth of
these rednecks...

Darryl Adams 

I'm not even sure the Ancients ever visited Delphi (although if we want a
minor Human race there, they must have). It definitely was on the fringe of
their stomping grounds (Remember, the center lies in the Spinward Marches).

Hans Rancke-Madsen 

James,
  Do you remember the Astranami(sp?), a race(well more a culture as I 
recall) created by James Holden? They somewhat resembled Space Gypsies, 
and all those 100 worlds would be perfect for them.

bryan borich 

At 14:59:15, Oct 12, 2000, Allan Johnson (fishsong@prairie.lakes.com) 
wrote:

> In any case, those 10043x rockballs seem too good to waste -- especially 
> with the clustering Thomas Bont points out.  (Actually, we've got room 
> there for *three* separate cultures...)
> 

Or one ancestral culture, overlaid with and separated by the Imperium and 
then others when the old culture grew weak after the Pacification.

If the Rockball culture got its start during a period of regressed grav 
tech, it probably started around the end of the Rule of Man or during the 
Long Night.  It could have spread across most of the sector.  It might have 
been part of the one or two pocket empires mentioned, or it might have been 
started by spacers fleeing them.

The "Patrol" (yes, it needs a new name) would have been founded during the 
early part of the Long Night, maybe as an aid to anti-piracy as well as 
claim jumping.  They would have, likely, been based out of one of the 
higher tech (today) worlds (0823, 1405 is too high for my tastes at G).  It 
maintained a connection between the scattered worlds during the LN, 
solidifying the culture.

The Pacification shattered the old culture, many systems succumbing to 
Imperial culture, eventually being listed with new 'mainworlds.'  The belts 
in those systems may or may not still have remnants of the old culture.  If 
they do, they are probably a source of friction (ala Basques or Kurds).  
Others may have *accommodated* the Imperials to an extent (Palestinians or 
Northern Ireland) and thus show up at 10043x.

The separate, but linked, cultures are probably somewhat antagonistic, each 
claiming the moral high ground.  Or they might help each other (Imperial 
Rockballers might send remittances to the other groups, like the overseas 
Chinese send money back to China, or Cuban Americans).  Or both.

Joe Webb 

At 16:39:35, Oct 12, 2000, Joe Webb (jwwebb@earthlink.net) wrote:
 
> Actually, there probably isn't a reason it couldn't be included even if 
> there isn't a bunch of 10043x main worlds.  At only pop 4, this culture 
> could be included in any system with at least a pop of what? 6, 7?  We 
just 
> need x thousand living in the belt.

I'm beginning to like the idea of a Rockball culture, especially with this 
finesse on it.  Regardless of main world UWP data, we can handwave 
Rockballers into any system we want.  

I like the idea that the Rockballers were sort of driven to it long ago, 
probably by Imperial expansion, and subsequently adapted to the 
lifestyle.  Overtime, some accepted Imperium rule/domination and resettled 
on worlds, but a hard core of Rockheads prefers the rough and tumble 
life.  Even Imperials might adapt this viewpoint and join the rockheads in 
small numbers.  You get a mix of cultures within an Imperial system:
 - Traditional Imperials
 - Assimilated Rockheads
 - Hard Core Rockheads
 - Disillusioned Imperials (perhaps with Solomani tendencies).

Then you've still got independent systems within the sector that may have 
any range of feelings with regard to Imperials and Rockheads.  Throw in a 
couple of Hiver and K'Kree outposts in the Thumb (or whatever you want to 
call the N,O,P area) and you've got a really interesing sector.

Steve Daniels 

From the Challenge adventure we know of 2 definite pocket empires in Delphi 
(Free Human League and the Ychean Empire).  Ral Ranta (Challenge #39) 
covers 27 worlds in the Hinterworlds (primarily subsectors A & E), but has 
been in decline for centuries and used to be much larger (probably 
extending into Delphi P, Glimmerdrift A & B and Old Expanses D & H).

From the M0 Campaign we know of 2 major pocket empires in the Pacification 
area, one of which probably existed in or extended down into Delphi.

Another tidbit of info from "FORBIDDEN" canon is that during the First 
Imperium, Delphi was controlled by the Sharurshid Bureaux.  Now we may not 
be able to mention this, but lets try not to contradict it directly.

You know, the choice of names for the pocket empire (Free Human League) 
seems to suggest to me that there may have been some nonhuman race nearby 
the league.  Otherwise, why use 'Human' in its title.

Jimmy Simpson 

Xenophobia?

The Free Human League wasn't that far from the Genoee.  It wouldn't suprise 
me that an empire that was antagonistic to the Geonee would name themselves 
the Free Human League.

Also, the Ral Ranta (who are over a sector away from those guys, so they 
must have had some trade routes going through Delphi) is described as 
human-dominated empire in Challenge #39.  In Traveller, nearly every 
political system is are human dominated.  If you specifically mention that, 
then most likely, it was extraordinally human controlled.  Perhaps Ral 
Ranta supported the Free Human League (despite the distance) because of 
similar ideology?

Keith Johnson 

Good point.  In fact are these rockballers actually human?  May that be a 
reason that they resisted the Imperium for so long in the early days?  The 
name FHL is suggestive of the rockballers / Delphinians as currently 
envisaged, but maybe we have similar human and non human cultures? 

Just an idea
 
JB

John B Mee
Contact at jbmee@bigpond.com

Or perhaps "Free Human" as distinguished from "Rule of Man"?  With a proto-
SolSec ideology?

Allan Johnson 

Life in Delphi

I like the Delphi Sector, which has the virtue of being (along with 
Antares Sector) both a border sector and very close to the Core Sector.  
Astrographically, most of the traffic between Capital and K'kree and Hiver 
space would run through there... and political criminals fleeing Capital 
and trying to get out of Imperial jurisdiction would run hell-for-leather 
in that direction also.

A lot of traffic to the Solomani Confederation would go through Delphi as 
well, and it is close enough to the Hierate for Aslan to pass through, 
although with two sectors of prime patrolled Imperial space in between its 
unlikely any ihitai could make it there.

The seat of Archduchess Margaret Tukera, economist par excellence,  and 
the central headquarters of Tukera Lines (and its ruthless covert-ops 
private army, the Vemene, which the Traveller Adventure established to be 
a nifty villain group) has a lot of gaming potential.

Note that GT, p. 68 gives an excerpt from an address by Duchess Margaret 
to the "500th Oracle."    What might that be,a nd what part might it play 
in Delphi?

Ralph Young 

I agree that it's easy to justify including rockrats in *lots* of places --
 though I do think it would be easier to visualize them if there's some 
sort of center to rockrat culture.  The puzzle is:  what sorts of 
governments might make sense?  Describing "typical rockrat worlds" might 
be easier if we could pick a few salient characteristics -- small moons, 
nearby belts, x government.

I know you find oligarchy uninteresting; but I almost wonder if these 
folks aren't too rambunctious for democracy.  What if "oligarchy" were 
defined more in terms of old-line anarchism -- not the bloody war of all 
against all we usually envision, but something more like communes and 
small power structures?  Or what other ideas might work?

Allan Johnson 

Buffalo Gal Go 'Round the Outside?

At 11:17:46, Oct 10, 2000, Eamon Watters (eamonwatters@hotmail.com) wrote:
> One thing I think the project is going to have to work on from the 
> start is working in not only the canon on Delphi, but also those of 
> the surrounding sectors, where they effect Delphi. 
> 
> I'd guess Long Night Pocket empires will need to be checked out (Or 
> invented). Off the top of my Head the 21 Worlds in the Old Expanses 
> will need plugged into the history, and Ral Ranta in the Hinterworlds 
> will be both Historic and Current.
> 
> Gateway is has some importance alluded to it in Supp 5: AHL, and 
> Megatraveller Digest 4, I'd assume that Delphi would be one of the 
> main routes to Gateway, and should have an interest/impact on the 
> politics there.
> 
> Talking of Surrounds, one of the things that will have to be looked 
> at with regards to UWPs is the Colonies. In most of the 
> sector/subsector write-ups I've seen a lot of dominant powers for 
> colonies that make no sense whatsoever, e.g TL-8 worlds dominating TL-
> 12 worlds, Hi-pop worlds in thrall to world with a population in the 
> thousands, and other oddities. Usually the problems arise because the 
> designer isn't willing(or couldn't) use a suitable nearby world in 
> the surrounding subsectors/sectors as the colonising power. I can't 
> recall if the Delphi UWP's include O: comments, but if they do this 
> will need to be looked at.

Very incomplete -- they have two O: comments, and one is unreadable while
the other doesn't make much sense.  My suggestions:
0129 -- try 0329
0138 -- no good candidates, 0439 is possible but port-D
0202 -- call this one a direct Scouts ownership.
0214 -- 0313
0421 -- 0422
0511 -- 0512
0515, 0516 -- 0313
0607 -- no idea
0737 -- 0739 (CORE has 0534, but I like my choice better)
0826 -- 0827
1013, 1015 -- ugh.  I'd change 1015s code and make it own 1013
1036 -- no idea, perhaps its directly owned by Tukera?
1202 -- 1103
1213 -- 1015
1504 -- 1603?  Odd band of high-TL low-pop worlds in here.
1801 -- no idea, unless its off-map
2433 -- no idea, perhaps direct imperial proxy
2612 -- no idea.
2733 -- no idea.
3138 -- 3037

Anthony Jackson