Naw, but seriously...I've seen the post where NAF says there's at least one name that's not on the list? But a possible three, four? Color me very, very, very confused now.
Another thought might be that, for instance, Badger and his crew are a semi-pro Crew mason group. While Badger's name is on the FF list, his cronies names (whatever they are) aren't. Same with Niska's mob. Perhaps Mad got Niska's Goon #1 (whatever his name was), whose name doesn't appear on any wiki list.
Color analysis says that both Badger and Niska's group would be opposed to the Alliance, and they'd fit thematically as masons. They'd also probably have an additional anti-town win condition, like the Non-Believers or the masons from M3. Color analysis, of course, could be wrong.
Oh, and this thing is like a terrible mix of puppies and crack to me. I can't quit for an hour? I might have to 12-step this thing when I finally get lynched/scumkilled.
This ain't good...I can't find any reference anywhere to Dotchan's name claim.Checked wiki,IMDB..nothing.
Why isn't it good?
I can't find my name anywhere either, or the other people in my masonry.
Can any one find a site that mentions Dot's name claim?
Part of the reason I was so opposed to Roosh's plan is that I knew that not all of the player names were on the Wiki...because my name is not on the Wiki. I also tried googling my name along with "firefly" and "serenity" and it came up with nothing. I am going to assume that a lot of the names are made up by NAFKat to confuse us.
MadTheSwine, I don't believe you unless you give us more info, and until that time I will leave my vote on you.
"This place gives me an uncomfortableness." -- A quote from someone on Firefly that I found amusing even having not seen the show. Mafia Record: 3-0 M2 - Mafia Henchman (Win) The Good Ship "Hispaniola" - Doctor Livesey (Win) The Cult of Sekham - Citizen (Win) Firefly - Bovine Chia Supreme Mugwamp President (TBD){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
I think almost all the characters we used in the creation of the game are listed in here (though a couple on the lists are not in the game, and there is at least one character that is in the game and not on the lists) but this should give all of you not familiar with the series a good starting point.
The game was made without the aid of the Wikipedia articles, so I can imagine NAF/Kat being able to fulfil most of the roles using character from the series and then adding a few names to bulk it out.
However, for your entire Mason group not to have a named character in - well, colour me unimpressed.
Now, I can imagine one or two of the vanilla, mason and scum not having named parts from the show because it prevents the game breaking for a mass name claim.
However, I would expect at least one member of the Mason group to be a named character. If you are saying none of your group is named, that's 3-4 miscellaneous characters we get no read on from the theme of the game.
This is really scummy thinking. A confirmed Mason is the last possible target for the scum right now. No Doc should be trying to protect them right now, and to bring up that speculation seems designed to confuse the Doc, who might be a new player at it.
I've only played a few games, and I was only scum in one (for one day), but why would scum not want to target a confirmed mason?
Re: Day 1 « Reply #905 on Sept 17, 2007, 11:24am »
If I could ask Mad a question (not that any of the ones I've asked before have been answered, but it's worth a shot)...
Why are you still voting for story? What about story has you convinced that he is more likely to be scum than anyone else?
I ask this because I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on your claim, but story basically pwned you earlier on your logic. To keep your vote on him at this point, when time is ticking down on our clock to lynch someone, seems counter-productive. Do you honestly think that he is the most scummy out of everyone? And if so, why? I'm just not seeing it right now.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #906 on Sept 17, 2007, 11:25am »
Unvote Sinjin. I'm still looking 'twixt MadTheMason's Generic Mason claim and [b]Dotchan's[b] Generic "Ramiro"Townie Claim.
But my vote will probably fall somewhere along there. I just don't know which yet. (And when I read NAF's post, i still assume that "almost all" means well... nearly everyone. So far we've got 3 people saying they're not on the list, which is fine. But to me it feels like a crazy coincidence that during day one, the people we're suspecting, of like 28 people, 3 pipe up that they're under the NOT "almost all" and rather a couple on the lists are not in the game, and there is at least one character that is in the game and not on the lists. And we've somehow managed to get at least 3 inGame, but not on list.
Because this is one of those hypotheses I had in mind when I suggested my idea (that the weaker claims might be the ways for scum to leave an exit if they don't want to make a strong claim), I'm VERY curious to see the outcome of these suspicions. ~R
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
I have a name and a different title than mason but it is the exact same role as a mason would play.
I have never watched the show,but I am fairly certain if I disclose the information some of you are asking for it will give away our numbers to those familiar with the show. I'm not sure if that is all that important though,if the scum know how many of us are masons. For now,I will still keep that info to myself.
So your name and mason group name will tell everyone who you are and how many masons there are in your group.
Assuming you are telling the truth, a possible situation.
This ain't good...I can't find any reference anywhere to Dotchan's name claim.Checked wiki,IMDB..nothing.
Why isn't it good?
I can't find my name anywhere either, or the other people in my masonry.
Can any one find a site that mentions Dot's name claim?
Huh? What do you mean you're not on the list.
That's a bit contradictory seeing as you said self naming would give the game away as to how many masons there are.
But also you're a mason, a role of power in the game and you're saying they didn't even give you a named character, or any of your Mason running buddies. I would ask for a refund.
The first thing that I did with my role name was check to see who they were in the Firefly universe.
Are you telling me you never even checked to see how important your role name could be or that of the people in your group, especially as a mason ?
I've only played a few games, and I was only scum in one (for one day), but why would scum not want to target a confirmed mason?
Because We don't KNOW he's confirmed. As long as doubt remains on a character, it's beneficial for scum to keep him around, and just "work around him". A mason is just a Confirmed Townie. They have no investigatory, blocking, protecting, or Vigging powers.
Thusly, for Scum it'd just like hitting a Townie. Except The scum would already know this person was probably a townish person (because obv. they know who scum are, and all who aren't usually are on the town's side -but multiple killing groups change this, but that's for another lecture).
But the point is simple: A mason can't "hurt" the Scum in the early game. Right now the scum want to find the roles that can out them, or prevent them from their goals of killing all the townies (blockers/protectors) and obviously to kill the roles who are trying to kill them (Vig). So a mason is basically just a flag for Scum to go "Okay, he's not the one we want. So we'll look elsewhere to kill someone w/ the intent to kill the confirmed town later in the game, either when he's "actually" confirmed by town. OR when the game starts to get down to 12 or less people, and that guy's vote has a bigger say then. They'll prolly keep a mason around because it's an easy way to pick up on other masonic roles by watching the guy when he's alive. That's why Scum don't want to kill Masons Early Game. And again, we don't know he's CONFIRMED mason. We know he's an unopposed Mason so far. There is a difference.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Fifteen votes. That means 13, dang near half the game doesn't have a vote in. If we have half a dozen scum, this could mean that over a third of the current votes are scum. Jeez, folks, vote for me, vote for anyone, but you have to find some people scummy so far, right?
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 34 Location: Under Zoe's thumb Karma: 2 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #911 on Sept 17, 2007, 11:47am »
Unvote Roosh Vote MadtehSwine
Roosh seems to have toned down his scumminess, and Mad seems really reluctant to offer any explanations. A name would be great if it didn't help the scum, but I'm not sensing a lot of cooperation coming from Mad.
I'm not convinced he's scum, he just seems to be acting the scummiest ATM.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 98 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #912 on Sept 17, 2007, 11:52am »
Sorry that I've pretty much dropped out of the conversation - my daughter has developed a charming digestive illness, so my time this weekend has been spent handling that and I haven't really been able to keep up as I'd like to. That said, my abbreviated thoughts at this moment:
I am bothered by both of our most recent role claims. I outlined my reasons for finding Mad's claim suspicious in an earlier post, so I won't repeat them in detail here, but to summarize: I think it's odd that he won't specify what the name of his role actually is; it seems to me that claiming a role but refusing to identify that role is a great cover for a false claim, since there's no way to falsify it or even analyze it. Since then he's been evasive, and some of his explanations - NONE of the Mason group have names in any way associated with FIREFLY? How reasonable does that sound? - have been hinky to me.
Also - while I hate to bring up old news - he walked away from this game prior to the weekend promising that when he returned, he'd show everyone how I had discredited him and "took all the glory" in the previous game. Since his return, he has not done so. He has not addressed his attack on me at all, in spite of being asked repeatedly to explain his reasoning.
-----
As for dotchan:
I guess I'd just like to ask dot: what is your opinion about claiming? Because in reply #868 toDay, you make a completely unforced claim:
Quote:
Maybe I haven't been clear enough, and for that I apologize. I've been purposely using the term "Town" instead of "Crew" because I don't know what the scum terms and win conditions are, and I didn't want to accidentally give them extra information. (And in retrospect, I probably worried too much because NAF and Kat probably used "Crew" for "Town" in all of the role PMs - NAF said something to the effect of making all of the role PMs as generic as possible, so that people can't confirm themselves 100% if they try to quote chunks of it. I tried to do that in the Psycopaths game, but apparently very few people picked up on it.)
I am, FTR, a Vanilla Crewmember, and I am Crew-aligned.
Not a name claim, but a role claim - and a role claim of vanilla Crew. OK. Why? With 15 votes needed for a lynch, dotchan had, at that point, two, maybe three (?) votes? Certainly she was in no danger of being lynched. It doesn't make sense for a player under no real pressure of lynching to make a vanilla crew role claim.
You know who agrees with me on that point? dotchan. See reply #870:
Quote:
For the fourth (fifth?) time, this is why I'm against the Vanilla Crewpeople claiming unless they're in danger of being lynched:
The scum do not know who the powerroles are. Until anybody said anything, they had a pool of 28 - N (where N is the number of that particular scum group) people to guess at.
With the vanillas claiming, they can now reduce the pool to 28 - N - Vanillas, unless they, too, want to play the game of "should we keep them in contention for a powerrole anyway, in case they're not being truthful"?
(On the other hand, I guess this also makes things easier for any pro-Crew protective/roleblocking roles, so things are not as grim as I thought.)
And then, just a few posts later, at #876:
Quote:
*sigh* I didn't think I'd have to claim, too, on Day One, but better me than a pro-crew power role, right?
I'm Ramiro, Vanilla Crewperson. I'm aligned with the Crew. I win when all Alliance (i.e. scum, not the normal citizens who are just trying to go about their business) are dead.
So dot makes a role claim, then talks about how vanillas shouldn't claim unless they absolutely have to, in order to protect the pro-town power roles, then makes a more detailed claim even though she didn't absolutely have to.
This all seems rather inconsistent, and insofar as she seems to be pushing an agenda of some kind via this inconsistent behavior, it reads as scummy to me.
I would be willing to vote for either Mad or dot at this point. Tomorrow I will attempt the task of looking at the records of some of the players who have stayed under the radar so far, to see if there's anything of interest to be found there. 32 pages... wish me luck.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 140 Location: The Warner Water Tower Karma: 3 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #913 on Sept 17, 2007, 12:16pm »
Story, I claimed right then because I didn't want to wait until the last minute, and it looked like I would be the next lynch candidate. Maybe it might not have hurt to wait an extra hour or so given the pace of the game, but I wanted to move the topic past "look at all the scumtells dotchan is shooting out her ass".
I have a name and a different title than mason but it is the exact same role as a mason would play.
I have never watched the show,but I am fairly certain if I disclose the information some of you are asking for it will give away our numbers to those familiar with the show. I'm not sure if that is all that important though,if the scum know how many of us are masons. For now,I will still keep that info to myself.
So your name and mason group name will tell everyone who you are and how many masons there are in your group.
Assuming you are telling the truth, a possible situation.
This ain't good...I can't find any reference anywhere to Dotchan's name claim.Checked wiki,IMDB..nothing.
Why isn't it good?
I can't find my name anywhere either, or the other people in my masonry.
Can any one find a site that mentions Dot's name claim?
Huh? What do you mean you're not on the list.
That's a bit contradictory seeing as you said self naming would give the game away as to how many masons there are.
But also you're a mason, a role of power in the game and you're saying they didn't even give you a named character, or any of your Mason running buddies. I would ask for a refund.
The first thing that I did with my role name was check to see who they were in the Firefly universe.
Are you telling me you never even checked to see how important your role name could be or that of the people in your group, especially as a mason ?
Yes,I am telling you that.
Based on my PM, I figured anyone familiar with the show would easily determine how many of us there are.
When did I say I wasn't given a named character?
Seems like you wanna pick on Mad ..cause he always seems scummy...we all know gorram well I wont be Night killed,so you are just trying to get an easy Day kill seems to me...sorta like another time I remember.
Either way, it definitely sucks Today. We're either going to fail to lynch anyone at all or most likely lynch crew after a long argument and multiple role claims which won't reveal much information after the lynch at all.
Or my fear, which GreedySmurf resaid: That there will be one quick scramble to vote all for one person at the VERY LAST MINUTE and that person will reveal they're a major power role only it'll be too late to unvote them and vote for someone else. Even if someone were to unvote so that person doesn't get lynched, there's always scum who might cast the fifteenth vote under the excuse "I don't believe them".
Quote:
I also don't like early role claims - Mad only had about 8 votes on him before his odd claim. That's a level to get worried at, but if everyone did that, the scum could almost start driving votes into role claims.
Yeah, that's what I said earlier. At this rate, all they have to do is just keep moving from one person to the other.
But my vote will probably fall somewhere along there. I just don't know which yet. (And when I read NAF's post, i still assume that "almost all" means well... nearly everyone. So far we've got 3 people saying they're not on the list, which is fine.
Actually, no...dotchan is not on the list. Mad the Swine has said that not only he but his fellow Masons (which I assume is at least either one or two others) are not on the list. And FCoD just said he's not on the list.
So that's four and a possible five who are not on any FF character list that can be found.
That's why Scum don't want to kill Masons Early Game. And again, we don't know he's CONFIRMED mason. We know he's an unopposed Mason so far. There is a difference.
There's another thing working here too (which you sort of said earlier in this post but not strong enough, I feel). The fact that a lot of suspicion is on him.
For example, if he's scum...then he won't be going nowhere at Night.
If he's really what he says he is, though, well, he's already under a LOT of suspicions and many don't know what he is and he's not even on any character lists. Town is more apt to do the job for them. So either way, he doesn't get Night killed.
The college here is closing, I haven't even finished reading the topic. More replies to come tomorrow, early.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 101 Location: The Black Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #917 on Sept 17, 2007, 1:16pm »
I can provide some canon based on Mad's name claim, but agree that it could potentially give the scum/other factions information that they may not already have. Thoughts?
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
I can provide some canon based on Mad's name claim, but agree that it could potentially give the scum/other factions information that they may not already have. Thoughts?
Well I draw a complete blank on Hector Sanchez and entrepreneurs in Firefly/Serenity in general.
Cookies - if you could provide any canon detail on it without giving too much away, I think it would be useful. If anyone else can confirm any of this, please do.
Somehow, I feel that anything MadTheSwine is going to say is going to be pretty much unverifiable.
And as it is a closed setup - I am going to assume nothing.
I'm not seeing how "Hector Sanchez" and "entrepreneur" are going to give information to the scum, as he earlier feared. It seems like Mad is starting to make stuff up as he goes along.
Cookies (or anyone else), if you can let me know if that in particular is possible without giving the reasons why (I'm looking for a "Yes, the name Hector Sanchez and the role Enterpreneur can let the scum know how many masons there are if they know the canon" or a "No, it can't"), I'd really appreciate it. Because right now, with this major question mark plus the very good analysis provided by CatInASuit above, I'm considering switching my vote back to Mad again, and keeping it there this time.
For instance, let's assume that Roosh is a bad guy and has no name (as has been theorized), then he's FORCED to claim. Now, he can either choose a less important role from the universe, have high risk of overlap, and most likely not overlap with a power role, making a role-claim the obvious choice. Thus, if he's going to claim, he might as well take a major role that will have a high chance of overlap, and either get away with it (because the real role doesn't want to counter) or, force a town power role to out himself. Keep in mind, without a role-claim, he was almost certainly going to die.
Now assume he is a badguy. If he has a very evil name, he'd pretty much have to pick another one anyway, and the above reasoning applies, OR he really is her, and his powers and alignment could mean anything.
IOW, it's more often than not a lemonade from lemons scenario.
This makes a lot of sense. However, with the benefit of the claim here, I don't see any reason why we still lynch him now. There are other scum in the sea, for one. If Inara comes up dead later on, we lynch Roosh. If someone else claims Inara, we lynch them both, and we'll have gotten a scum. So, right now, we can either lynch Roosh, and potentially be killing a (semi?) power role, or we can keep him as a kept option, in case his claim doesn't work out for him. If he's not telling the truth, we'll find out at some point and sha him.
(underlining added)
Note the underlined part: There are other scum in the sea.
Why are you so confident that Roosh is scum? This looks like an case of too much knowledge.
This makes a lot of sense. However, with the benefit of the claim here, I don't see any reason why we still lynch him now. There are other scum in the sea, for one. If Inara comes up dead later on, we lynch Roosh. If someone else claims Inara, we lynch them both, and we'll have gotten a scum. So, right now, we can either lynch Roosh, and potentially be killing a (semi?) power role, or we can keep him as a kept option, in case his claim doesn't work out for him. If he's not telling the truth, we'll find out at some point and sha him.
(underlining added)
Note the underlined part: There are other scum in the sea.
Why are you so confident that Roosh is scum? This looks like an case of too much knowledge.
Vote Diomedes
Holy Embedded Quotes, Batman!
I think you've gotten me wrong, Captain. I'm not confident Roosh is scum. What I was trying to imply was that Roosh currently has put a claim forward. His claim may or may not be true, but I don't see us getting proof of that unless we get a counterclaim from another Inara, or a Crew Oracle/Detective/Seer/Whatever tells us he's not Inara. We might not be getting a counterclaim might be because Inara has some powerful pro-town powers that make it worth her while to let Roosh's claim go forward for the moment, rather than reveal herself. This, of course, is all predicated on the fact that Roosh isn't telling the truth. It's also possible he's telling the truth, and we don't want to lynch power roles.
My "There are other scum in the sea" remark was intended to suggest that even if Roosh is scum, it's worth our while to seek out other scum rather than lynch a potential power role. There are anywhere from 5-7 scum (in my estimation), and we can afford to try to hunt another one out.
I don't claim any knowledge, I'm just attempting to reason out why it's best not to lynch a claimed power role.
I guess I don't know how assuming there's more than one scum in this game is a slip. Maybe I'm missing what you think I was saying.
I don't read it as simply assuming that there is more than one scum. It sounds more like "There is no need to vote for this scum, there are other scum in the sea".
I guess I don't know how assuming there's more than one scum in this game is a slip. Maybe I'm missing what you think I was saying.
I don't read it as simply assuming that there is more than one scum. It sounds more like "There is no need to vote for this scum, there are other scum in the sea".
I was making an appeal to those who thought that Roosh was scummy. On the first day, a lot of people (right now, it looks like Mad, dot and I) look scummy. Claimed power roles, especially those that we know are going to be in the game and absent a counterclaim, ought to be given some heed.
I can't force you to change your vote, I don't plan on changing mine, and I'm not even going to give you an OMGUS FOS. But I think that there are other people out there who look a lot scummier than I. (pygmy, sinjin and dot, for what it's worth)