Concerning Role-claims - something just occured. If the people are as indistinct as they usually are in a Joss Wheedon universe, frankly the Scum could roleclaim and we would not lynch them at all. No-one else would have their role and it would be exceedingly difficult to say whether the scum was good/bad/neutral. So they would be able to stand there and no-one would counter-claim and say but I'm a townie and no-one would know what to think.
If this occurs, that's fine. They role claim, and no one else opposes. That's when we look at the REST of the actions. This role claiming thing is just ONE useful tool I think we have at our disposal.
If noone counterclaims, that's good enough for me. However if someone goes "I'm so and so from the Alliance" I will be Voting his ASS OUT. Period.
But otherwise, let them claim to be some "neutral" person. (or if there's a townie that has a neutral role name out there, fine) That just means one less other role for scum to claim. It still helps us in teh long run.
Because again, once we have more data, maybe we'll start to see a certain pattern in the way the killers are working, and maybe there's a guy out there in the FF world who likes using swords to kill people, and we just happen to have a that Sword guy in the game being claimed as a "neutral". we don't lynch him outright, but now we examine him over the course of the game. Maybe a cop can look at him or something over the night and figure out something. Etc.
This is just the starting point. We shouldn't just say, well it's kinda shaky. Let's not do it at all. because that's just NOT helpful in ANY way then to the town. That's like saying "well, it's a new idea. I don't like new ideas, because they're risky. Let's not try it."
What have we got to lose by attempting this method? (For all Pseudo-Doc claims, please read the above posts for my take on THAT issue).
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 98 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #271 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:26am »
OK, so in essence your idea is:
When someone is in imminent danger of being lynched, they name claim. If no one counterclaims, we evaluate the claim as best we can and decide whether or not to lynch the person anyway. If there is a counterclaim, we evaluate the competing claims and decide which player is more likely to be lying, then lynch that player.
Does that sum it up? And how does that differ in any significant way from the way we've done things in every game so far?
200 farking posts in less than 25 hours?!? A vote, a half vote, and an FOS on me already? From that one post?
It will be a miracle if I can manage to keep up, and not fail my certification exams. If this pace keeps up I might need to get a sub. Dang.
Anyways, my win condition does not state that I be the last one alive. I know that might come as a shock to some of you. As a matter of fact my win condition is pretty confound vanilla. What I was trying to convey, is that town has no idea who they're up against. I'm positive that I have fellow townies, mostly because if I were the only one, this would be the strangest game of mafia ever. However, not knowing how many scum there are (I know this is the norm), how many scum teams there might be (if more than one), and whether or not there are "Great Pumpkin Chia Reaver" roles makes me a bit nervous.
Maybe it's because I was a mason last game, and playing alone again feels odd, but I don't think that's it. Maybe it's because I've never played more than a few hours as a vanilla townie before. Whatever it is, I feel like I'm backed in a corner distrusting everyone. Think Dotchan in the last game, but not nearly as shiny or cute. That's my reasoning for the "every man for himself" comment, in case anybody's interested.
Oh, and I've seen the movie and all the episodes once. I might get a few of the references, but I'm no fanatic.
Sorry, I don't buy it. My role PM makes it very clear that the game is not "every man for himself." I don't believe that you might confuse "every man for himself" with mistrust of everyon but yourself. Those are two very different concepts. I will leave my vote where it is.
I note that Roosh still hasn't arrived to fill us in on the contents of his magic bag (and thanks, capybara, wherever you are, for the perfect metaphor), so I'm going to wait until he does for further comment on our previous conversation.
I think the debate over the definition of the word "majority" needs no further comment.
But I have a thought, one I'm not sure will be popular, but reading through this thread has clarified something about this setup that I think needs to be said.
NAF and Kat, whether intentionally or un-, have created a diabolical setup. We have ten, count 'em, TEN, real life days of this. We're on page 8 and we still haven't even really talked lynchings yet. By the time we reach the end of toDay, we are going to have thirty pages. Thirty long pages. We are in real danger of having our conversation become so saturated with noise, and so great in volume, that it becomes utterly useless - not just for toDay, but for later analysis. If Days One and Two, together, wind up at sixty or seventy pages of posts, does anyone think they will be up to cogent analysis of the proceedings on Day Three? Or Day Nine? I don't.
So here's my proposition, for what it's worth:
With all due respect to the game setup, we do not need ten real life days to settle on a Day One lynch target. I believe in order to increase the signal:noise ratio, we should deliberately limit ourselves to a shorter Day - pushing a majority at the end of the fifth real life day if at all possible.
I know this probably sounds out there, but please think it over. Ten days. Ten days of this. Ten days worth of posts to get through when the time comes to look back on toDay in light of new information we'll soon receive. Is that a net benefit to the town? I say not. What say y'all?
I think this is a good idea. I don't see how we can fill 10 days with useful discussion. I'd also like to try to end this Day at about 5 days.
The town seems to have a problem with votes and how to handle them.
A suggestion:
We start a separate thread each day purely to keep track of votes. A bit of extra hard work I know but may be worth it.
Votes will have to be done in the Day threads but each time someone votes they go and update the other thread to keep track of who has voted for who.
It will not be much use towards the end of game as votes come thick and fast, but will allow us to see who the main suspects are throughout the day.
Comments: anyone?
(and it saves Hal from having to do a spreadsheet)
I think this is a bad idea. I think that there is way too much potential for error here. I'm not all that concerned about the voting. Like zuma basically said, as we approach the "kill limit" of 15 votes, we must all be careful not to tip the scales without first reaching a concensus. If someone casts the 15th vote without the town's approval, I, for one, will be voting for him or her first thing in the morning. Nobody will be afraid of casting votes 14 and 15 if the town agrees.
Now, onto Roosh. I've never played in a game with you before, and I didn't read Asylum Lane, so I'm not used to your...unique posting style. At first, I found you very scummy. I think you post a lot while simultaneously posting little. Your "taunts" of knowledge made me suspicious of you. When you revealed your secret, I was initially even more suspicious. However, after thinking your theory over, I'm not so sure of your scum status...yet. I understand what you are saying about names vs. roles, but I'm not sure I agree with one of your fundamental premises. I won't assume that all of the names given to players are from the series. Likewise, I won't assume that the names given may all be "known," in the sense that they are minor characters that were mentioned offhand in a single episode. I have not seen any of the episodes of Firefly nor the film Serenity. The major flaw in your plan, IMO, is our present inability to verify that all given names are known characters from the series. For that reason, I do not think we should accept a name claim just because nobody refutes it. Like someone upthread pointed out, what is to stop a scumbag from claiming they are a character that is an obvious choice to be an investigator? In doing so, the scumbag would force us to believe their claim or force the real investigator to out himself, both of which are extremely undesirable. If we believe the false claim, we will be given false readings, and that could cause some real trouble.
I would also like to mention that I find your vote for Blaster Master Spiff a little disturbing and a little OMGUS. His arguments against your plan are not all that far-fetched, IMO.
"This place gives me an uncomfortableness." -- A quote from someone on Firefly that I found amusing even having not seen the show. Mafia Record: 3-0 M2 - Mafia Henchman (Win) The Good Ship "Hispaniola" - Doctor Livesey (Win) The Cult of Sekham - Citizen (Win) Firefly - Bovine Chia Supreme Mugwamp President (TBD){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
Joined: Aug 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 124 Location: Hidden and Smiling Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #273 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:36am »
Roosh,
You have missed the point of my post, possibly even ignored it deliberately.
Just for emphasis.
The scum can claim with their own role names and it will not make any difference.
Why: because being a particular person in this game is no guarantee of being town or scum.
Some roles will be obviously town but I bet you that the scum role names are indistinct enough that we will not be able to tell just from their name if they are scum or not. WIFOM it is not.
Consider this - your name is more like flavour text, amusing to read but nothing more. In that way, the majority of people are most definitely vanilla town. What matters are the powers that go along with the role.
Trying to use flavour text from the PMs is like trying to determine who killed who after a night from the dawn descriptions. Pointless
When someone is in imminent danger of being lynched, they name claim. If no one counterclaims, we evaluate the claim as best we can and decide whether or not to lynch the person anyway. If there is a counterclaim, we evaluate the competing claims and decide which player is more likely to be lying, then lynch that player.
Does that sum it up? And how does that differ in any significant way from the way we've done things in every game so far?
1. We've never had the ability for the counterclaim to work as well though before. Previously anyone could just claim "townie" and hide.
2. We do the RoleClaiming a bit before we have them in danger of being lynched. (Like if it takes 15, maybe around 8-10 votes perhaps. Like maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the lynching #)
3. And I personally would rather hold off then on lynching if they provide a satisfactory claim (ie: uncontested). Ie: if someone says they're the Captain and no one contests it, let them live. Find another target. * **Granted it might lead us in a big circle of everyone claiming to be some neutral townie. But I really really doubt that that could happen. If that does end up happening then after 2-4 people we could start fig. out what to do next. But this seems like a good start, no?
Man. Why are people so cynical? I thought this was an awesomely great idea when I realized it.... =( Like does it really not benefit the town? Because I think it can be immensly helpful. Maybe we need to put it into practice and see how it works? Like under actual conditions. See what Scummy people do?
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
The scum can claim with their own role names and it will not make any difference.
Why: because being a particular person in this game is no guarantee of being town or scum.
Some roles will be obviously town but I bet you that the scum role names are indistinct enough that we will not be able to tell just from their name if they are scum or not. WIFOM it is not.
See. I want to believe that they're not. That scum are given names like "Reaver 1-3 or Alliance memeber" and just that. If they're given real names, and if those names are obscure little names from the game, then fine. But shouldn't we be suspicious after a while if we have like 5 people who are just these borderline obscure as heck people, while everyone else is a major actual person from the list of the 33 Wiki people?
Consider this - your name is more like flavour text, amusing to read but nothing more. In that way, the majority of people are most definitely vanilla town. What matters are the powers that go along with the role.
Trying to use flavour text from the PMs is like trying to determine who killed who after a night from the dawn descriptions. Pointless
:nod: I can see this, but I don't want to believe it. Mostly because in reading theme games on Mafiascum (gasp!), It isn't the case usually. But yes. Fine. I admit we're on the StraightDope Boards. Dopers play their games differently.
It's just on those theme games every kill by a certain GROUP of scum tends to be in teh same style (so you can actually track which group killed who), obviously we can't do that because we don't have any deaths yet.
That's the thing. Perhaps my idea would have been better served AFTER a night kill has occured, so alot of these questions would be cleared up (ie: are there dead obscure roles? Are there neutral/evil sounding guys who are pro-town? etc)
So fine. I admit that: If the roles were just that- Just flavor and the Names were first assigned and THEN the roles were assigned 2nd, then Yes. My idea would be moot. It'd be useless.
But i really really want to believe that in a FF themed game, that... i dunno, there would be MORE to the theme than just random groups of people. Because my Win condition is quite explict on How I win. So I assume that if I'm under this condition. There must be others who fall under THAT other condition.
And I want to believe THOSE guys are fitting with the theme of this game. Ie: The good guys seem REALLY REALLY unlikely to fit the description of "the bad guys".
But yes. My plan IS FLAWED if the mods just assigned roles randomly and names independantly then.
But My heart and my gut wants to say (to make this game more fun) that they did try to correlate the two.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Re: Day 1 « Reply #276 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:52am »
Fine. I will stop posting so much then about my ideas. I still like them. And I still want them to be valid. But perhaps I'm biased. So I'll stop. I will wait then for a later day to bring them up again: ie: if the circumstances on Day 2 dictate that my ideas ARE valid.
So fine, I concede, Cat. I'll stop pushing my idea, since I'm the only one in favor of it....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Joined: Aug 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 124 Location: Hidden and Smiling Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #277 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:59am »
And now comes the problem.
At this point you are making assumptions.
And as we know: Assumptions = A really, really bad thing.
There are 37 characters to choose from and anything is possible. The town in general has no information as of yet. Only a certain few power roles do. There may be some correlation, but it CANNOT be guaranteed.
Sorry, Roosh. Some aspects are worth keeping, but the general idea is not.
1. We've never had the ability for the counterclaim to work as well though before. Previously anyone could just claim "townie" and hide.
Someone can still do that. They just have to attach a name to it. Please see CatinaSuit's most recent post for why this completely undermines the plan.
Quote:
2. We do the RoleClaiming a bit before we have them in danger of being lynched. (Like if it takes 15, maybe around 8-10 votes perhaps. Like maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the lynching #)
I'm not sure I'm willing to establish a hard-and-fast rule regarding when a player "must" role claim. Players will role claim when they need to.
Quote:
3. And I personally would rather hold off then on lynching if they provide a satisfactory claim (ie: uncontested). Ie: if someone says they're the Captain and no one contests it, let them live. Find another target. * **Granted it might lead us in a big circle of everyone claiming to be some neutral townie. But I really really doubt that that could happen.
Why do you doubt that would happen? That's exactly what would happen. 'Round and 'round 'till dusk. The scum aren't going to claim Doctor Tam this early on. If forced to claim, they'll just say: "Hi, I'm Bob. I'm vanilla Crew, I win with the Crew."
Under your plan, if there is no counterclaim - and why would there be, if our hypothetical scum really IS named Bob? - we let the claimed Bob off the hook and move to the next target. Whoever that is is going to name claim, and we'll move to the next target. Repeat three or four times and you have proven nothing, accomplished nothing, and wasted the Day. Your plan - we don't lynch anyone who makes a name claim, no matter what, unless there's a counterclaim - would in practice mean that we don't lynch anyone.
Quote:
Man. Why are people so cynical? I thought this was an awesomely great idea when I realized it.... =( Like does it really not benefit the town? Because I think it can be immensly helpful. Maybe we need to put it into practice and see how it works? Like under actual conditions. See what Scummy people do?
Going to be hard to see what Scummy people will do without knowing which ones are the Scummy people. My guess is they will do much the same as the non-Scummy people.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 138 Location: Pacific Time Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #279 on Sept 13, 2007, 1:09am »
Hey guys, couple of things.
First, sorry I wasn't around more yesterday. I was left suddenly and unexpectedly without internet access for about 24 hours. (and my freakin phone wont let me sign in to the website, so I was able to read, but not post)
As far as the vote thing goes, listen to what Kat said. 15 votes on a single person or no lynch. Though I didn't receive a single PM and things didn't start getting posted in green until well into the discussion, so I probably wouldn't have said anything until then anyway. I am going to try to be hands off in that respect.
Quite frankly I agree. Ten days will have the players tearing each other apart, never mind the town.
Just so y'all know, you aren't actually expected to go 10 days. In fact if you go a full 10 days the day will end and there will be no lynch. We were just trying to give you all plenty of time so you didn't feel rushed into making a decision. The deadline is their ONLY to keep the game moving, I am not expecting any Day to last nearly that long.
As far as Idle and sanctions go...I think that his first post about votes was phrased in a way that he did not violate the no game mechanics talk rule.
He did edit a post however, and something will need to be done about that. So Kat and I will discuss and apply some sort of sanction on him Day 2.
IF YOU NEED A POST EDITED FOR SOME REASON, PM KAT OR MYSELF, WE CAN EDIT IT FOR YOU.
That way everything stays nice and kosher. Idle actually knows this is possible, and knows the rules.
This first time the sanctions won't be too severe, but if it becomes a problem, we will start mod killing folks.
If forced to claim, they'll just say: "Hi, I'm Bob. I'm vanilla Crew, I win with the Crew."
Under your plan, if there is no counterclaim - and why would there be, if our hypothetical scum really IS named Bob? - we let the claimed Bob off the hook and move to the next target. Whoever that is is going to name claim, and we'll move to the next target. Repeat three or four times and you have proven nothing, accomplished nothing, and wasted the Day. Your plan - we don't lynch anyone who makes a name claim, no matter what, unless there's a counterclaim - would in practice mean that we don't lynch anyone.
I guess the way I saw it as, no one CAN just say "I'm Bob with teh Crew". I'm thinking all the people are one of those 33. With scum maybe getting a name like "The Evil Bounty Hunter or something Jubal" And so rather than just reveal "hey guys I'm jubal!" And have the town go, wait, isn't that the evil bounty hunter?! FOS!To prevent that, the Scum will look at the list of 33 people or whatever, and have to try to pick one that'll look the least suspicious or whatnot.
Like force them to pick a character from the FF series, and then be that person. With teh chance that the person they pick is an ACTUAL townie walking around, who could then go, "no wait! I'm that guy!" helping us reduce it to 50-50.
But If Scum just went "Yeah, I'm Joe Smith, and I'm crew". well, I wouldn't believe that sort of a claim, but I can see how that'd break the game. But that's when you start to notice with other roleclaims. "Wait, why isn't anyone else just "Bob Smith, from accounting" and if everyone else has a SPECIFIC role, then you gotta go back to JoeSmith and start pointing some fingers at him.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
"This place gives me an uncomfortableness." -- A quote from someone on Firefly that I found amusing even having not seen the show. Mafia Record: 3-0 M2 - Mafia Henchman (Win) The Good Ship "Hispaniola" - Doctor Livesey (Win) The Cult of Sekham - Citizen (Win) Firefly - Bovine Chia Supreme Mugwamp President (TBD){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
"This place gives me an uncomfortableness." -- A quote from someone on Firefly that I found amusing even having not seen the show. Mafia Record: 3-0 M2 - Mafia Henchman (Win) The Good Ship "Hispaniola" - Doctor Livesey (Win) The Cult of Sekham - Citizen (Win) Firefly - Bovine Chia Supreme Mugwamp President (TBD){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
I think the scariest thing I've seen so far is that Roosh's big theory amounts to basically re-phrasing the game setup with what he thinks is a major loophole.
On one hand, it makes at least some sense. On the other hand, it's not even close to as sure as he thinks it is. Given that my preference in early game is to punish people who seem to have too much knowledge, vote Roosh.
The wikipedia article? Or the fact that I am thinking that?
oints to brain: In there. I thought about it. And then here. oints to gut: And maybe here too oints to heart:
If I say "i think" it's just my thoughts. That's it. Nothing more. Don't take it as more than that. But still. They're MY ideas. I like em. I have 'em all the time. I can give more.
And yeah, Roosh was the highest level of Insanity. I kinda liked it. It might be something i'm subconciously striving for within this game too (but to be fair, like half of my posts are from the "boost your Post count section" and the other fluff areas. I do like fluff, so i try to keep it over there as much as possible.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Ok, I’ve re-read what zuma and aturas posted about being suspicious of the 14th or 15th voter while the towns still discussing what to do. I’m sorry but I still see this as a ploy to get a no vote at days end. We have to have a consensus of 15 people to vote someone out the airlock. That’s going to be tough enough without threatening the last two voters with immediate next day retribution. If 13 of 28 players have already voted for someone what more is there to really discuss? It would be so easy for scum to delay, delay, delay using your logic; papering the board with long wordy posts that say nothing.
However if we do what story suggested and set our own deadline a day or two or five ahead of the official deadline this point is moot. But it would have to be a firm deadline.
BTW zuma I was not offended by your post and for the record I haven’t smited ya either
I know this is an older post, but I just read it. IMO, this is a bad idea, let explain with an example. Let's say our top votees are A who has 7, B who has 6 and C who has 6. This means there's 9 votes outstanding. Now, chances are there are scum votes in there, it's entirely possible that a majority ofthe people who aren't on the top vote getters just don't see A as scummy and, left to choose 'twixt the three themselves, the votes might end up with B and/or C above A.
This method would easily allow a scum or two to make a tip, near the deadline, and then, quite literally, force a bunch of people to vote for someone they don't see as scummy, and largely obfuscating their actions behind a bunch of people moaning and groaning about voting for someone they don't think is scummy.
We MUST have a choice, even if it's 'twixt the lesser of two evils, otherwise we lose vote accountability, and put the game in the hands of the loud and the early voters.
Hence, my suggestion of doing it in a couple of stages.
I don't want to sha vote accountability, I was just thinking about moving the time frame up. If we had an agreed end-point, then the votes leading up to that deadline would be the ones we'd hold people accountable for. People, in your scenario would be encouraged to put C over the top prior to that end date.
Grr... I'm feeling confused and unable to convey what I'm trying to say. Furthermore, I'm apparently sending out lots of scumtells with that confusion. I think I've racked up a FOS from just about everyone right now, so I'm going to just drop this, entirely.
I think the scariest thing I've seen so far is that Roosh's big theory amounts to basically re-phrasing the game setup with what he thinks is a major loophole.
On one hand, it makes at least some sense. On the other hand, it's not even close to as sure as he thinks it is. Given that my preference in early game is to punish people who seem to have too much knowledge, vote Roosh
Let's see what HIS name is, maybe.
I thought it was a good loophole....
And Punish people who have too much knowledge? Isn't that... like Anti-Cop, Anti-Mason, Anti-Democracy???
We've already had 1 night of non-kills but other roles got to play, ya know.... Jeez.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 98 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #288 on Sept 13, 2007, 1:23am »
So, on the subject of timing:
The "natural" endpoint of this Day is, unless I can't add, seven real life days from tomorrow, or Thursday, September 20. I propose that we make every effort to secure a voting majority by no later than Monday, September 17, at or around 3:00PM PST. This will shorten the conversation by a few days, add a bit of much needed urgency to the conversation, and allow for Day Two beginning during a week, rather than on a weekend.
Diomedes I never fos'ed you. And you only have like one vote. Quit freaking out. Heh. It comes with the Territory. You gotta have a tough skin, but if you do feel frustrated, totally step away and then come back. That helps alot.
and may I point out, I hate the stupid hammering thoughts. It seems like a big waste of time.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
I'm down with that Story, Though i'd say even by like Fridayish. Since I seem to be the top vote getter, I'd like a chance to clear my name. So i'm down with Friday or sooner unless there are more suspects than just me. If it's just me, then get this over with ASAP.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Actually, I can't cite it. As that would get me modkilled. But my Flavor comes straight from Wikipedia.
Roosh, you are either scum, or being wildly intemperate with your remarks. If the latter, I'd urge you to think carefully before you say anything more on this subject.
Overall, and having read a bunch of your remarks, I have a question for you, having nothing to do with your theory.
What is your definition of the term "scummy" as it relates to this game? Because it seems like you reject other suggestions of what constitutes scummy behavior, but your own definition of scummy remains hazy and unclear.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 101 Location: The Black Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #296 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:14am »
I can't remember who said something similar, but they suggested (or at least mentioned) having a preliminary phase of voting with the vote-leaders moving up to a 2nd round, when the actual majority consensus target would be selected.
This seems to fit in line with the stages that myself, story, sinjin (did I forget anyone?) seem to be talking about.
I don't know which arbitrary number is best (5 maybe?) for the first vote threshold. 5 strikes me as sufficiently below the (15-x-y) limit to avoid a hammer-wagon. (Did anyone define "hammer" for whoever was confused yet?) Out of any players who receive 5 votes, we have a vote-off. Someone(s) would have to volunteer to keep track of the votes leading to this first phase.
One (of probably many) tricky points: When do we decide to transition from the first phase? When we have at least 2 candidates? 3?
I also want to be clear that this is just a proposal for an approach. Obviously if some major development pops up in the middle of this attempt to dance toward coordinated consensus, it could very well hijack all of the discussion/vote, and we'd just have to all respond as we individually see fit.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 101 Location: The Black Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #297 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:24am »
Whoops, I left panamajack out of my "stages" list, and I forgot to bold everyone's names.
I also realized that I've intersected a couple of sub-conversations, and I don't mean to imply any "guilt by association". There are those who wish to tread carefully around certain delicate voting environments (potential scum manipulation of hammers or "no lynches") and those of us who wish to have the day last less than 10 days. I think my above proposal can apply to both.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
Actually, I can't cite it. As that would get me modkilled. But my Flavor comes straight from Wikipedia.
So uh. I think they used wikipedia? But again It's MY Thoughts. And no they're not Idle thoughts either.
And with that I go to class. Peace out.
Um, If i gotta defend myself, lemme know.. I'd like a VOTE COUNT REQUEST please
I should have been more specific. You are thinking that all of the assigned names are taken from the lists in the wikipedia articles, correct? I want to know what is your basis for this theory.
Short of NAFKat telling you (and they'd have to tell everyone, and they haven't), you cannot know for sure. That means you are assuming. The fact that you've accepted this assumpion as fact terrifies me.
We do not know that all of the assigned names come from the ones mentioned in the wikipedia articles. Just because your name is listed doesn't mean everyone else's is listed. Your plan requires that everyone's name be listed, and since we can't rely on that, your plan is unreliable (and IMO dangerous).
"This place gives me an uncomfortableness." -- A quote from someone on Firefly that I found amusing even having not seen the show. Mafia Record: 3-0 M2 - Mafia Henchman (Win) The Good Ship "Hispaniola" - Doctor Livesey (Win) The Cult of Sekham - Citizen (Win) Firefly - Bovine Chia Supreme Mugwamp President (TBD){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 21 Location: MH,NJ,USA Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #299 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:41am »
Just checking in to note that I'm here, I'm attempting to follow along, and that I hate Day One of Mafia games. <yanks hair out>
--I keep flip-flopping about Roosh's plan...a lot of holes have been poked in it, but I still think it's at least worth trying out.
--I'd be fine with a Monday deadline, although a Friday one would be even better by me (I never have, and never will, buy into the "ending the day early is anti-town" meme...it's neither anti- nor pro-town...it's simply more time for one side or the other to make a mistake, and town is just as capable of making a mistake in that time as the scum are). However, a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm hardly online on weekends, and would dread the amount of catching up I'd have to do on Monday morning before the "deadline".
--One thing that worries me about the whole "insta-lynch at majority" is the number of people who will be listed as not having voted. I suppose they could always put in a "would have voted for Top Dog" to get the message across, but we have to decide whether that carries as much weight as an actual vote (from a voting history standpoint, that is).