gos se. Meant to say more. But i was actually gonna say on my list of people: HockeyMonkey shouldn't be there, she's posted a decent amount. So remove her.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
zuma Waiting to be cows Replaced by Dotchan member is offline
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #571 on Sept 14, 2007, 3:06pm »
I don't think we should have any more discussion about the meaning of "alliance citizens". At this point it's either outed power roles or found scum. Hopefully the latter.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 34 Location: Under Zoe's thumb Karma: 2 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #572 on Sept 14, 2007, 3:06pm »
Roosh, in the name of all that is holy, put down the foooking keyboard for an hour!
You are NOT helping either team. If you're scum, you've done an excellent job of painting a target on your back. If you're town, how 'bout you shut it for a few minutes?
You're eager to play. That much is clear, even to a brain-dead, retarded meth-addled monkey with OCD.
Quality, not quantity.
There are probably at least a half dozen Samuel Clemens quotes that might apply here, but I reckon I can't recall any that might fit.
Reign it in dude. Double posting is one thing, but three posts in a row is a problem.
Oh yeah, my vote still stands. Plain ol' townies don't act like that, town power roles don't act like that. Someone who just got their first scum role might, but still. We're meant to believe that you are some sort of vindictive vanilla townie that crusades through the game brandishing might and logic, while still making a fuk-up or two?
I didn't want to vote for Roosh nearly as much as he forced me to vote for him. If out of game knowledge is acceptable reasoning, what do we have?
Vanilla townies don't try to break posting records usually, they're pawns. Granted, I went "suicidal townie" in M3, but that had little effect, and I wasn't in the lead as far as post went by a few orders of magnitude.
Town power roles can either try to be in the limelight, or hide away, sometimes a mix of the two. If Roosh is a town power role, we're not in good shape.
Roosh reminds me of Blam from the last game a bit. Except without the subtlety. I have to say that the sum total of Roosh's actions are far more anti-town than anything I ever did.
I'm leaving my vote on Roosh for now. If I can take a week's vacation, I'll try to catch up.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 29 Location: Aus Karma: 1
Re: Day 1 « Reply #574 on Sept 14, 2007, 3:12pm »
Dnooman's claim looks fair enough. Unvote dnooman
But now I'm unsure about where to put my vote. There are some candidates:
Roosh - of course. Although I'm not sure if it's a scum bad plan or a town bad plan.
Pygmy Rugger - the "what are the scum called" question looks off. You subsequently explained that it was scum fishing, but I'm not convinced.
MadTheSwine - I can't make out the motivation for the attack on storyteller. I can't make sense of it, whether Mad is town or scum. And it looks way too heavy handed to be a manufactured argument.
Mtgman - another player to suddenly attack storyteller. Maybe it's residual animosity from M5. Or perhaps someone started a "pick on storyteller" club. Although it strikes me more WTF? than scummy.
It's hard to get a good read on Roosh, simply because of the volume of his posts. While some things he says seem scummy, that' doubtless merely because he's touched on every single topic that comes up, occasionally on alternating sides. However, I've voiced my opinion before that he doesn't seem scummy to me, and he's returned the favor. Somewhat optimistically, perhaps, I'm going to lay him aside as a scum candidate for now.
I don't even want to touch the whole MtS/ Storyteller tiff just turned me off. While it might be a decent idea to stage this fight, I didn't sense staging in the slightest with it. Each of them has proven to be an excellent player in the past, and I think it would do us well to keep them around for a while.
dnooman's seems scummier than ever to me. He's stated that his win condition is predicated on the alliance being dead, right? That doesn't necessarily mean he's town, however. Psychopaths win when scum is dead. Furthermore, he claimed a role which absolutely could be Alliance, and anyone can claim to be Crew. If it wasn't for the fact that support for tossing him into the afterburners seems to be waning right now, I'd vote for him.
Pygmy Rugger, however, seems just as scummy to me. His entire 'scheme' to find out about a second scum faction seems entirely implausible to me, and makes me think he was just trying to play dumb, at first. Furthermore, finding out about the presence of a second scum faction would help scum just as much as the town. As a townie, my win condition is that I win with the Crew, and all Alliance members are dead. There wasn't said anything about all Alliance and all Blue Sun members are dead. Scum might not have that information in their PMs.
Because this is ALL i was asking for with my system. You are the one who drew in the ideas of roles and such into this whole thing.
My plan was simple. I wanted a name, and see if anyone uncontested. No one did. So he's fine in my book. That's all my idea was good for. Everyone seemed to put their own spin on this though, and since then i've been defending it. But honestly, this is all I was going for, and I'm satisfied. I'm not gonna try to infer anything more from it, nor fish for roles from it. My idea's done its use.
But that's the whole freaking point. You're giving WAY too much credence to names. They're NOT what your plan depends on them being, because it is now demonstratable that there is no need to scum to make a false claim, meaning they'd be a whole lot of dumb to make a claim any different in any discernable way from what dnooman did. But now you're trusting him based solely on him giving his name, about which he has no reason to lie in the first place?
FWIW, I'm disinclined to vote for dnooman, but I stated my reasons prior to his role claim. Namely, I thought the "slip", while it very well could have been one, and very well could still be, as evidence of him being an SK is based entirely on role speculation, of which I think is pointless. Further, the only other evidence against him is him not taking the accusation seriously. Hell, I wouldn't take it seriously either and, if he's telling the truth about his role, then I can see him saying what he said.
Quote:
Point #2: You're really analyzing my posts. Probably longer than it takes me to make them. I don't care about the differences 'twixt the words Role/Name claims. A claim was a claim (the above is the perfect example of all i wanted). You can call it whatever you want, you can attribute it to all the slips you want, but think about this:
I think you're just looking for reasons to lynch me, it's a case of tunnel vision at this point. If i was scum, I know exactly what i'd do, I wouldn't play this way. It's TOO difficult to have such a high noise ratio and not fuck up. I'd actually proofread my posts and pay attention to my word choices. This time around though (Game #2 for those playing at home), I'm happy with the way i played in Game 1, and I'm just gonna go more with it. Because hey, why should i care about the posts/words I'm using? I know what I know, and as long as I stick with my role, I've always got the truth of my role behind me. IE: I can play townie, because I AM townie. The Truth will set me free, ya dig?
Let me give you a little bit of information on how I play this game. I don't take notes (I tried it in M2, but it just made it harder). I have a general idea of how I feel about each person as I'm reading through; HOWEVER, I read each post first without reading the name. This way, I can get an idea of the scumminess of the post without it being influenced by the poster. If I feel it warrants a response, I open it in a seperate window and move on. When I'm all caught up, I go back and, if I can't remember what I wanted to say, or it's no longer relevant, I close the window.
And it's not like I spend a lot of time analyzing either. The vast majority of my posts are brain-dumps with very little to no previewing and re-reading, much like your style, as I understand it. That is, I don't spend a lot of time analyzing before I write a post, it's often something that comes to me when I read or when I'm writing... that's just how I think.
Seriously, this post has taken little more time to draft than it would have taken me to type it if I were transcribing it. So I think your generalization about me over analyzing you or having tunnel vision, are misplaced.
Quote:
Point 3: I feel i may have a lot of tunnel-vision townie votes on me. People who are voting for me because they haven't paid attention to the voting, just are seeing "Wow, others are saying he's scummy, and damn, he isn't even really trying to deflect it (though i'm addressing every post that I can against me) the suspicion that well. He's being too nice apologizing and such. That's so scummy! So actually alot of you have put votes on me, and have tried to reason it.
You very well may have, but you've also done a poor job of addressing the points that have been brought up against you, and the rest of this post pretty much is textbook scum behavior...
Quote:
Here's the thing though. In this sort of day, what I'm curious about are the people WHO HAVEN'T gotten their hands muddy. Because the scum have the PERFECT excuse NOT to get their hands dirty. "This thread is too big, this thread is crazy! How Can i ever keep up! Let's talk about a side issue than the people who are being discussed". It's an easy out, and then when later in the game comes along, they can EASILY place a vote "to avoid a no-lynch" by voting for someone who LOOKS REALLY Scummy to the WHOLE town.
That's why I'm curious about: CaerieD* you've said things, but then i feel are getting lost in the noise. Hal Briston* Ditto. Captain Klutz* Though i think he might have posted while i'm writing this. So perhaps he'll have something to say. But still the others then if he says something. Hockey Monkey And especially tragic whatthefrak Yattara
19 votes have been cast at this point. That leaves 8 stragglers. Or 9. I can't count. I'm gonna guess 9.
Now if scum are layered, I expect 1-2 to be on me, but I also expect that 1-2 could EASILY hide in the silence by saying TOO MUCH Noise has occurred.
That's why i don't really have a clear target yet.
I'm actually curious as to Mad's Posts, but I don't know if its scummy or if its something else. I want to see more from him. Dnoo, I'm actually QUITE satisfied with. And I believe he's town more than like 75% (arbitrary big number in my head that's less than 90). And me, well i know my role, and I'm happy to point out I'm not the right lynch for toDay as well. But I don't know who is a lynch potential for today. =(
...hey look, I'm drawing suspicion, let's try to pull up some other people to maybe distract you all so I don't have to address the points.
Other than a joking remark, you've made Lord knows how many posts since reply 508 without addressing the actual content. Perhaps if you can give a pointed response, you might do a better job of dispelling my, and others', suspicions.
Other than a joking remark, you've made Lord knows how many posts since reply 508 without addressing the actual content. Perhaps if you can give a pointed response, you might do a better job of dispelling my, and others', suspicions.
This i can get behind. Could I perhaps get a list of Bulleted issues against me that you feel make me scummy? Feel free to add other people's problems too. Because right now, I feel like everyone and their grandmothers *okay not really, i just wanted to use the grandmothers line* have accused me, and I feel like its for the SAME things which i've already addressed over and over. I am posting alot, because I am defending against each accusser, but, jeez there are alot of them.
So if you make ONE big bulletted list of things you feel I STILL haven't addressed, by ALL means then, I will make ONE SINGLE post and address them all. And then I'll bizui about myself, unless someone else asks for a clarification? or if they want more info.
How's about that? You do a little work, I'll do a little work? Deal?
Just make the list comprehensive, I don't want you then to still say well i think you're scummy cuz of "blah blah blah" and it's NOT on the list of issues you have with me.
So you go for it all, And i'll do the same. AND i'll bizui. Win-win, no?
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Spaceman Spiff Jayne's Hat The player formerly know as BLAM! member is offline
It's hard to get a good read on Roosh, simply because of the volume of his posts. While some things he says seem scummy, that' doubtless merely because he's touched on every single topic that comes up, occasionally on alternating sides. However, I've voiced my opinion before that he doesn't seem scummy to me, and he's returned the favor. Somewhat optimistically, perhaps, I'm going to lay him aside as a scum candidate for now.
Be VERY, VERY careful with this. This is a common scum strategy to buddy up and defend townies, particularly newbie townies. I, for one, will be wary of anyone who defends anyone at this stage without good cause.
Quote:
dnooman's seems scummier than ever to me. He's stated that his win condition is predicated on the alliance being dead, right? That doesn't necessarily mean he's town, however. Psychopaths win when scum is dead. Furthermore, he claimed a role which absolutely could be Alliance, and anyone can claim to be Crew. If it wasn't for the fact that support for tossing him into the afterburners seems to be waning right now, I'd vote for him.
But you see, that's exactly my point. His role-claim lends no proof to either possibility, but neither did the evidence that forced him to claim. He was forced to claim purely on role speculation. He has a role that is ambiguous, from what I gather, so he could be either. I think voting for him is a waste of a vote, because there's much better evidence against several other people; similarly, I think counting him as probably town is a fatal mistake, because there's no evidence to support that, IMO, either. In my book, he's a big fat .
Quote:
Pygmy Rugger, however, seems just as scummy to me. His entire 'scheme' to find out about a second scum faction seems entirely implausible to me, and makes me think he was just trying to play dumb, at first. Furthermore, finding out about the presence of a second scum faction would help scum just as much as the town. As a townie, my win condition is that I win with the Crew, and all Alliance members are dead. There wasn't said anything about all Alliance and all Blue Sun members are dead. Scum might not have that information in their PMs.
I agree with your suspicion of Pygmy Rugger; however, at this moment, I still find Roosh the scummiest, by far, and zuma slightly more scummy.
It's hard to get a good read on Roosh, simply because of the volume of his posts. While some things he says seem scummy, that' doubtless merely because he's touched on every single topic that comes up, occasionally on alternating sides. However, I've voiced my opinion before that he doesn't seem scummy to me, and he's returned the favor. Somewhat optimistically, perhaps, I'm going to lay him aside as a scum candidate for now.
Be VERY, VERY careful with this. This is a common scum strategy to buddy up and defend townies, particularly newbie townies. I, for one, will be wary of anyone who defends anyone at this stage without good cause.
Oh, I'm wary of it, as well. However, I don't expect Roosh to last very long, and for right now, I'm hoping he doesn't turn out scum; which might make me look like scum. While I know that winning or losing has nothing to do with me being alive at the end, one does have a certain sense of self preservation in these things.
You're fine Diomedes. I believe you're 100% Town. But that means you're dead too. Sorry.
and guys, I'm coming up with a new plan. Last plan didn't work so well. So i got a new one. And no secrets this time. Unfortunately, in this plan, I kinda need to die. So uh... Can i get 24 hours to hash out this plan and explain it?
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
zuma Waiting to be cows Replaced by Dotchan member is offline
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #584 on Sept 14, 2007, 4:01pm »
Well, I'm trying not to violate the "no quoting pms" rule. I assumed "alliance citizen" was the role, but it's not.
and guys, I'm coming up with a new plan. Last plan didn't work so well. So i got a new one. And no secrets this time. Unfortunately, in this plan, I kinda need to die. So uh... Can i get 24 hours to hash out this plan and explain it?
Unless someone's got something better.
Even when you say you're not going to magic bag us, you go right ahead and magic bag us!
I for one would love to hear your new plan Roosh. If nothing else I'm sure it will be interesting.
Other than a joking remark, you've made Lord knows how many posts since reply 508 without addressing the actual content. Perhaps if you can give a pointed response, you might do a better job of dispelling my, and others', suspicions.
This i can get behind. Could I perhaps get a list of Bulleted issues against me that you feel make me scummy? Feel free to add other people's problems too. Because right now, I feel like everyone and their grandmothers *okay not really, i just wanted to use the grandmothers line* have accused me, and I feel like its for the SAME things which i've already addressed over and over. I am posting alot, because I am defending against each accusser, but, jeez there are alot of them.
So if you make ONE big bulletted list of things you feel I STILL haven't addressed, by ALL means then, I will make ONE SINGLE post and address them all. And then I'll bizui about myself, unless someone else asks for a clarification? or if they want more info.
How's about that? You do a little work, I'll do a little work? Deal?
Just make the list comprehensive, I don't want you then to still say well i think you're scummy cuz of "blah blah blah" and it's NOT on the list of issues you have with me.
So you go for it all, And i'll do the same. AND i'll bizui. Win-win, no?
I can't promise a comprehensive list, but I'll list the topics that are of most interest to me, particularly that I raised in post 508.
1) I initially voted for you because I felt like you were fishing and playing bait and hook with us. Post 96
2) Then you finally come along with your grand master plan, which essentially boils down to we get people's names, and if no one counters, we trust them as town, and end with a poorly reasoned vote for me and asking me to role claim. Post 241
3) Probably poorly worded and a bit snippy, but boiling down to the idea that you're making an enormous number of unprovable (and since invalidated) assumptions. Post 255
...then follows a whole bunch of people discussing the various holes in your plan, so I'll skip ahead to stuff that's more fresh in my mind.
4) Suddenly, you start talking about how full of holes your plan is, but you still want to follow it. I also mention what I think is a very big distinction 'twixt name claim and role claim, and a huge inconsistency in your post grand plan post with regard to your vote and role claim request of me. Post 508
5) Then dnooman claims, and you contradict yourself by claiming your plan clears him simply because no one counter-claimed. Post 542
6) I'm completely confused by this, because it seems to clearly contradict your plan, which you're sticking to, despite it having holes poked in it, and the premises being invalidated. Post 557
So, let's take a specific point of the issues, with regard to you, as I see them:
1) Fishing for knowledge about the show and for roles names, while fully aware there could be correlation 'twixt certain power roles with major characters, but not necessarily a correlation with the scum.
2) I want you to address the inconsistency with regard to you asking me to role claim with only one vote, after specificly stating in the same post that we should pick the top 2-3 candidates and ask them.
3) I think the distinction 'twixt role-claim and name-claim is a big one, hence why I've mentioned post 508 more than once.
5) You have no addressed, at least to my satisfaction, how a name-claim offers ANY evidence to support the towniness of someone. We now have distinct evidence that there are potentially ambiguous roles; thus, there's potentially no need for scum to have to claim anything other than their own name. Add in certain other possible scenarios (like the Harry Potter one, or conversions) and this practice could actually be VERY dangerous.
6) You seem to be back-pedalling on your plan, and have admitted in more than one post that it has flaws and holes, yet you still use it to unvote dnooman.
7) dnooman's claim itself pokes holes in the very reasons you use to FOS him, because his charcter IS ambiguous. Thus, he's either town and telling the truth, so no one will counter claim OR he's scum, being honest on his name, but not his allegiance, and thus no one will counter claim.
...I'm sure there's more, but those are the major points as I see them.
Yeah, but it's gonna take ALOT of time. Esp, since i've got class in 5 hours. So i'm gonna go to class. do my work. Get a haircut. Then come back in the evening.
Then for the rest of the evening, I'll compose my plan. Cuz it's gonna Take a LOT of work. But i'll put the effort into it.
Call it Roosh's Plan 2.0 In the meantime, why don't you guys talk about something else for a while?
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Well, I'm trying not to violate the "no quoting pms" rule. I assumed "alliance citizen" was the role, but it's not.
I'm still confused by what this means, and I know you don't want to talk about whatever it is you're hinting at, but I'd love even the slightest bit of explanation as to why you voted for BM, and FOS'd me.
Well, I'm trying not to violate the "no quoting pms" rule. I assumed "alliance citizen" was the role, but it's not.
I'm still confused by what this means, and I know you don't want to talk about whatever it is you're hinting at, but I'd love even the slightest bit of explanation as to why you voted for BM, and FOS'd me.
I know you would, but we are tabling all discussion of this topic for now.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
1. Because i feel i have nothing else to lose at this point. 2. I reread my PM. 3. I'm going with what my Gut and my Brain says is the right thing to do.
*I'll get to your points tomorrow Blaster*, but i admit, it's not looking good for me. Which is one reason I've created Roosh'sPlan2.0.
*At this moment I'm kinda 75 to 50 on you being townie over you not being townie. Yeah, I know it doesn't add up to 100, but then again, I've got a big gut, and I've got some crazy ideas. up there. But Just take it to mean its a good thing for now. Unless that 50% is right. Then whoops. My bad.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
and guys, I'm coming up with a new plan. Last plan didn't work so well. So i got a new one. And no secrets this time. Unfortunately, in this plan, I kinda need to die. So uh... Can i get 24 hours to hash out this plan and explain it?
Underline mine.
Oh grief, another martyr. I hate martyrs, they rarely, if ever, help the town out. (No I am not referring to Pleonast )
However, more scummy is your vote/unvote for dnooman, with the justification, that you are doing it because it is scummy.
dnooman. Thank you for the apparently honest posting. You are probably going to be the first 1st day vanilla roleclaim who is not going to be lynched judging by the reactions of the other players.
The other occurance which has pinged my curiousity is the double meta-game attack on storyteller by MadTheSwine and then by mtgman. NAF has confirmed that the Scum did get to strategise last night, so they may already have a plan of action. One meta-game attack would be unusual, two doubly so.
One final thing did occur though, concerning Roosh Plan #1, which makes sense to me at least. Roosh has started with a scum (ie. non-town) role and a scummy sounding name so the assumption is that all other power roles will have similar sounding names. If he is part of a scum group then it is likely they same applies for them as well (given night time strategising)
Also given the fact he has mentioned 2+ killing groups, makes me think he is part of one of them.