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Sept 23, 2007, 10:27pm





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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Hal Briston
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #720 on Sept 20, 2007, 9:54pm »


Sept 20, 2007, 9:21pm, drainbead wrote:
...but right now I trust dotchan's claim the least of the two of them.

And that's the same route I'm heading down. I don't know a gorram thing about the importance of "Wash" or any of the name claims (but hey, if anyone wants to mail me the DVD's, I'll take a couple of days and get up to speed ;)), which makes it much easier for me to buy into CatInASuit's vanilla claim.

Since no FF fans can verify dotchan's name claim, I find her to be the (marginally) safer bet.

Vote dotchan
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #721 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:16pm »

Crappity Crap Crap Crap.

OK, in the absence of a counterclaim (which may yet come) I believe that Cat is Wash. This is a FF themed game, I am 99% positive that an FF themed game is going to have Wash as a character in it, thus I think a scum would be insane to claim Wash.

On the off chance Cat has false name-claimed, we really need the real Wash to name claim right now. Don't need a role claim, just a name claim.

You know what, if no one else does name claim Wash, I do believe I'm happy for a no-lynch to happen toDay. (shocked? yes so am I) Bare with me on this (so, assuming no name counter-claim) -
We have just gotten some information which I consider 99% reliable - Cat is Wash is a vanilla crewperson. This is exactly the information we would have received from a lynch, except we don't lose a confirmed townie to get it!

The one minor WIFOM sticking point is that this does rely on the Wash character being a good guy. I personally think NAF/Kat have gone with a traditional setup in that respect. And yes I am aware of the "infamous" Harry Potter game on Mafiascum, but I don't think that is the case in this game, IMO.

So on that basis, I am not going to vote for CatinaSuit unless there is a name counter-claim. And this Day ends at some ungodly hour in the morning for me, and I am off to bed very shortly, so I find it unlikely that I will actually be around for Days end anyway.

A little footnote, From my perspective and my thinking as outlined above this does leave Dotchan in a precarious position, because she unfortunately does not have the same luxury of a well known character name to fallback on. Even though I personally get a town read from her.

Anyway enough from me, I'm off to bed.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #722 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:20pm »

Meh, so it comes down to who looks scummier, but I have a sinking feeling most people are going to vote on the basis of whose name claim is less believable.

Well...technically, we have another 20 hours or so, but to make it harder for opportunistic scum to "accidentally" hammer Cat, unvote CatInASuit.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #723 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:23pm »

Clarification: The above post is made with the assumption that Cat is indeed what he claimed.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #724 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:40pm »

Considering how scummy you lot seem to think I am, I thought I would go back and see if dotchan is still as scummy even if we hold that her character name does not matter.

To being with dotchan wrote "Cookies, are you still going to hold the zuma/Idle feud against me, zuma's replacement? 'Cause I have no idea what those two were on before, and I know I'm town."

This pings my scumdar as it basically says, whatever zuma said, it doesn't matter anymore because someone new is playing the role.

dnooman's roleclaim was #506. "My name is Sheriff Bourne. Don't let that mislead you, it not a cop role. I have no special powers. I am an Alliance citizen, however, I am a vanilla crewperson with the alignment "crew". My win condition requires all Alliance to be dead. "

In #868 dotchan partially roleclaims by saying "I am, FTR, a Vanilla Crewmember, and I am Crew-aligned."
In #876 she roleclaims saying "I'm Ramiro, Vanilla Crewperson. I'm aligned with the Crew."

If she was stating facts in both, should they not be the same?

dotchan claimed with only two votes on her with the following reason in #913. "I claimed right then because I didn't want to wait until the last minute, and it looked like I would be the next lynch candidate."

What I don't understand is the following. Most of the pressure at that time was being applied to MadTheSwine. dotchan was being pressed by Idle Thoughts and diomedes.

At that point she then provided her partial roleclaim. she only had two 2 votes and most people looking elsewhere? There were other people not including MadTheSwine with more votes than her as well.

Roosh, then asked her to complete the roleclaim with a name which she did. Given that she had already partially claimed, she could not reasonably decline the request.

It was following those posts, I commented that Ramiro was not on any list I could see for Firefly.

Pygmy Rugger comments that "The mods did say that there was at least one character that wasn't on the wiki, but I can't imagine them using a character that wasn't in the show or movie." ( The Sanchez brothers can fit the bill for that claim).

MadTheSwine, then commented he could not see his name or dotchan's rolename anywhere.

At which point, I concentrated more on MadTheSwine than dotchan. Eventually, we find out that MadTheSwine is a character in the firefly universe and we start looking elsewhere, at which point I start wondering aloud if all characters in the firefly universe.

Of course, Pygmy Rugger follows up with the following gem in #966 "I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I highly doubt one scum would say, "my name's not on the list!" and the rest of the scum would follow in suit. I wouldn't doubt if one or more of the aforementioned group were scum, but not all of them. "

Compare this with his statement above. I think it looks contradictory.

I will point out that Roosh and Hockey Monkey were next to vote for dotchan over this issue of not being in the firefly universe, followed by myself.

Most people were then voting for dotchan until dnooman pointed out the details in her roleclaim at which point everyone started unvoting. Given that her roleclaim is pretty identical to dnooman's and differs from her partial roleclaim previous to that, why have people have decided she is still what she says she is.

If you don't think so, I have not been the only one thinking she was scummy. There have been plenty of other players commenting in their posts.

Frankly, even without the name meta gaming - she still looks like scum to me.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #725 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:50pm »

As I have said before...I know very little of the show, other than reading this thread and what I picked up trying to find my role elsewhere on the net.

From what I learned so far, Cats character is one of the central characters in the show isn't he? and he is vanilla? I dunno about that,seems last ditch, trying to out yet another role.

If there is a counter on any of these claims...SPEAK UP!

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #726 on Sept 20, 2007, 10:52pm »

I've been mulling over the thread for an hour at this point trying to determine what I think is really going on. Unfortunately, logic and reason are totally failing me at this point.

Gut feeling time:

unvote Idle Thoughts
vote dotchan
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #727 on Sept 20, 2007, 11:02pm »

Yeah, this is going badly. I can't think of a single reason why we should be tacitly accepting the claims of dotchan and dnooman, but not the claim of CatinaSuit, for which there is almost certainly a counter if he's lying.

So, first order of business:

unvote CatinaSuit

I'm going to spend part of this morning reading the last fifteen pages or so, to see if anything leaps out at me. If nothing dramatic has occurred to me or happened in the game by noon-ish... well, then I don't know what I'll do. I am reluctant to vote dotchan, for a variety of reasons - I think her claim rings true. I think the whole air of the push to lynch her feels almost identical to the push to lynch her in the last game. I think people are jumping on the "well, let's just lynch her to get rid of the distraction" angle way too enthusiastically, but whether it's because they're scum looking for a lynch from which they can easily disassociate themselves or because they're frustrated and oversatured townies frantic to just end the Day already, I can't tell.

This gos se is hard.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #728 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:02am »

Can we get a vote count? I'm sorely behind on that.

In light of Cat's claim, I will be reconsidering a vote for dotchan. Even though I'm somewhat disinclined to vote for either at this point, I'm of that mind that we do not have enough evidence or enough time to produce any alternate candidates.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #729 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:03am »

I may not be around at the buzzer, unvote atarus,vote Dotchan.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #730 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:08am »


Sept 20, 2007, 6:06pm, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 20, 2007, 5:54pm, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


WTF? A no-lynch nets us ZERO information and we go through the same crap tomorrow. Both dotchan and Cat are claiming vanilla, both look suspicious. Don't meta-game based on what you think is or is not an appropriate name for a villain.


I'm sure if there's anyone with a speck of doubt about my roleclaim, my bipolar behavior here at the end of the night will be certain that I'm scummy maximally.

Visions of "Night falls, and the town lynches Wash, good ole' pilot of the Serenity, just like he said he was" were dancing through my head. Honestly, if we don't land scum here, I wonder how much information we're really going to get. Most of the arguments for lynching Cat have been somewhat lukewarm, with the exception of the initial argument (it's 4am, here, I'm not going to go searching for who it was) based on him bandwagoning all over the place.

However, I suppose that leaving us in this stale position, with the only person weeded out being whomever the scum decide to knife tonight, isn't going to help in the slightest.

rererererevote: What's his name... Cat... in the suit.


FTR, though it may have been a smudge, it was mostly intended as my expression that I find a no-lynch vote to be anti-town behavior, even if coming from someone for whom I'm disinclined to vote at this time.


Sept 20, 2007, 10:16pm, Greedy Smurf wrote:
Crappity Crap Crap Crap.

OK, in the absence of a counterclaim (which may yet come) I believe that Cat is Wash. This is a FF themed game, I am 99% positive that an FF themed game is going to have Wash as a character in it, thus I think a scum would be insane to claim Wash.

On the off chance Cat has false name-claimed, we really need the real Wash to name claim right now. Don't need a role claim, just a name claim.

You know what, if no one else does name claim Wash, I do believe I'm happy for a no-lynch to happen toDay. (shocked? yes so am I) Bare with me on this (so, assuming no name counter-claim) -
We have just gotten some information which I consider 99% reliable - Cat is Wash is a vanilla crewperson. This is exactly the information we would have received from a lynch, except we don't lose a confirmed townie to get it!

The one minor WIFOM sticking point is that this does rely on the Wash character being a good guy. I personally think NAF/Kat have gone with a traditional setup in that respect. And yes I am aware of the "infamous" Harry Potter game on Mafiascum, but I don't think that is the case in this game, IMO.

So on that basis, I am not going to vote for CatinaSuit unless there is a name counter-claim. And this Day ends at some ungodly hour in the morning for me, and I am off to bed very shortly, so I find it unlikely that I will actually be around for Days end anyway.

A little footnote, From my perspective and my thinking as outlined above this does leave Dotchan in a precarious position, because she unfortunately does not have the same luxury of a well known character name to fallback on. Even though I personally get a town read from her.

Anyway enough from me, I'm off to bed.


However, here's a good example of someone of whom I'm already suspicious trying to take advantage of the situation and produce a no-lynch.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #731 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:14am »

Unvote CatInASuit

Jebus rutting Christ

We don't have time to build a case against anyone else, but I can't vote for someone I believe to be town. Who then should I vote for? atarus has been further down on my probably scum list, but since everyone near the top has claimed, I suppose it's time to

Vote atarus.

Og help us all. I can't wait for this nightmare Day to be over.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #732 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:17am »


Sept 21, 2007, 12:02am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Can we get a vote count? I'm sorely behind on that.



Dotchan has 9 votes
Cat has 12 votes
artarus has 1 vote
Dio has 1 vote

I will list who is doing the voting when I get to work.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #733 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:21am »

I can help with that. I moved the people with no votes left on them to the end of the list.

Day One Votes

1- DiomedesDrainbead(816)(940), Dotchan(861)(1202), captainklutz(924)(1254), Drainbead(975)(1030), panamajack(1095)(1292), hockeymonkey(1102)(1154), mtgman(1162),

9- Zuma/DotchanIdle Thoughts(205)(473), sinjin(232)(363), Idle Thoughts(836)(1069), Diomedes(839)(1057), Roosh(984) HockeyMonkey(989)(1052), CatInASuit(991) Cookies(993)(1054), MadTheSwine(996)(1076), BlasterMaster(1004)(1147), pygmyrugger(1006)(1070), sinjin(1029) drainbead(1030)(1075), greedysmurf(1040)(1247), Diomedes(1135)(1260), Cookies(1167), drainbead(1185), diggitcamara(1203), Hal Briston(1316), zeriel(1322), MadTheSwine(1325)

10- CatInASuit – atarus(1066), yattara(1084), pygmyrugger(1086), Diomedes(1097)(1135), Idle Thoughts(1113), BlasterMaster(1147), storyteller(1191)(1323), FCOD(1209), hockeymonkey(1252)(1357), captainklutz(1254), Diomedes(1260)(1309), dotchan(1265)(1318), Dnooman(1269), panamajack(1292), Diomedes(1311)

1- atarusMadTheSwine(1076)(1325), hockeymonkey(1357)

0- RooshIdle Thoughts(54)(205), BlasterMaster(96)(1004), storyteller(157)(382), zeriel(283)(610), dnooman(364)(911), Drainbead(350)(633), sinjin(363)(723), Hal Briston(365)(637), Cookies(566)(660), CatInASuit(598)(605)

0- DnoomanFCOD(100)(522), drainbead(312)(350), greedysmurf(354)(512), hockeymonkey(355)(519), zuma/dotchan(366)(527), captainklutz(447)(574), pygmyrugger(452)(638), panamajack(455)(541), Roosh(458)(542), CatInASuit(485)(598), Roosh(593)(644), Idle Thoughts(643)(653)

0- MadTheSwinestoryteller(382)(788), atarus(424)(1017), greedysmurf(512)(896), FCOD(522)(1077), drainbead(633)(661), CatInASuit(753)(960), Drainbead(763)(769), HockeyMonkey(823)(931), Roosh(909)(984), dnooman(911)(1061), drainbead(940)(969), pygmyrugger(1006)(1006)

0- Idle Thoughtszuma(3)(366), pygmy rugger(196)(446), Diomedes(417)(575), Dnooman(1061)(1269), zeriel(1065)(1322)

0- Pygmy ruggerDiomedes(575)(743), panamajack(709)(899), MadTheSwine(979)(996), drainbead(1090)(1185)

0- WhatTheFrakDiomedes(27)(65), Diomedes(126)(417), Cookies(939)(955)

0- Mtgmandiggitcamara(526)(1203)

0- BlasterMasterRoosh(241)(368), zuma/dotchan(560)(580), HockeyMonkey(962)(989)

0- SinjinRoosh(716)(906), Idle Thoughts(721)(836), Diomedes(743)(839), zeriel(793)(1065), zuma/dotchan(797)(830)
0- StorytellerMadTheSwine(375)(979)

0- Drainbeadpanamajack(899)(1095), Idle Thoughts(1069)(1113), FCOD(1077)(1209)

0- TragicHockeyMonkey(931)(962), hockeymonkey(1154)(1252)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #734 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:34am »

Well, this Day is turning out to be the worst rutting piece of gos se ever.

Point one: I really really really do not like the idea of a no lynch, as we learn nothing from it. I want to believe both dotchan's and CatInASuit's claims, but it would appear that we have to lynch either or nobody.

Point two: I think we can assume that there is a "Wash" assigned to someone in the game. Therefore, unless someone counter-claims CatInASuit, I will believe that he is who he says he is.

Point three: Unfortunately for dotchan, the name she has (or made up) is "Ramiro". (Do you hear that, Roosh? Ramiro, not Ramone.) There is really no way to verifiy dotchan's claim like we can with CatInASuit's. Nobody has counter-claimed to disprove the claim, but with a made up name (by NAFKat or dotchan) we can't use the absence of a counter-claim as verification, since we can't be sure the name exists in the game in the first place.

Therefore, I am forced to unvote CatInASuit and vote dotchan.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #735 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:34am »


Sept 21, 2007, 12:08am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:



Sept 20, 2007, 10:16pm, Greedy Smurf wrote:
Crappity Crap Crap Crap.

OK, in the absence of a counterclaim (which may yet come) I believe that Cat is Wash. This is a FF themed game, I am 99% positive that an FF themed game is going to have Wash as a character in it, thus I think a scum would be insane to claim Wash.

On the off chance Cat has false name-claimed, we really need the real Wash to name claim right now. Don't need a role claim, just a name claim.

You know what, if no one else does name claim Wash, I do believe I'm happy for a no-lynch to happen toDay. (shocked? yes so am I) Bare with me on this (so, assuming no name counter-claim) -
We have just gotten some information which I consider 99% reliable - Cat is Wash is a vanilla crewperson. This is exactly the information we would have received from a lynch, except we don't lose a confirmed townie to get it!

The one minor WIFOM sticking point is that this does rely on the Wash character being a good guy. I personally think NAF/Kat have gone with a traditional setup in that respect. And yes I am aware of the "infamous" Harry Potter game on Mafiascum, but I don't think that is the case in this game, IMO.

So on that basis, I am not going to vote for CatinaSuit unless there is a name counter-claim. And this Day ends at some ungodly hour in the morning for me, and I am off to bed very shortly, so I find it unlikely that I will actually be around for Days end anyway.

A little footnote, From my perspective and my thinking as outlined above this does leave Dotchan in a precarious position, because she unfortunately does not have the same luxury of a well known character name to fallback on. Even though I personally get a town read from her.

Anyway enough from me, I'm off to bed.


However, here's a good example of someone of whom I'm already suspicious trying to take advantage of the situation and produce a no-lynch.


OK.

I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm just going to take the bullet on this one, because I think there may be others who feel this way but are staying silent for fear that bucking the conventional wisdom is going to get them lynched.

I'm not so sure that I agree that advocating a no-lynch is inherently scummy. I'm not even sure I agree that it's the worst possible outcome anymore.

Really, what's wrong with Greedy's argument, above? If Inara and Mr. Universe is in the game, and Wash isn't, then I'm a parrot. Until someone counterclaims Wash, I am acting as of CatinaSuit is telling the truth.

So, for all intents and purposes, we have the same information we'd have had by lynching Cat, but Cat isn't dead. If a few Days go by without a counterclaim, we may even be able to look at him as a semi-confirmed player.

Right now, we have four options that I can see:

(1) Lynch Cat - who is very probably town barring a counterclaim

(2) Lynch dot - who I do not believe has been shown to be scum

(3) Attempt to rustle up a last minute, ad hoc lynching of a third player - which I think would be the worst idea of all, since such a lynch would be chaotic, ill-thought out, give us little information, and possibly nail or out yet another power role.

(4) Lynch no one. See what toNight's actions reveal. Start over toMorrow, hopefully in a less disorganized fashion.

I definitely think #1 and #3 are terrible ideas; I am unconvinced of the relative merits of #2 vs. #4. I have always said that people should always vote for the person they think is most likely to be scum. For me, voting for dotchan would involve violating this principle, and voting for someone else would result in a no-lynch.

This sucks.

P.S. Do you realize that by the time we had as many posts in Asylum Lane as we have on Day One of this game, we were putting the finishing touches on Day FOUR?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #736 on Sept 21, 2007, 12:49am »

Aww... Christ.

Six of one, half dozen of another. Let's kill someone and get on with it.

Here's hoping Ramiro's scum, and we can get lynch concentration in the next, what four hours?

unvote:CIAS vote:dot
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #737 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:01am »


Sept 20, 2007, 5:36pm, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 20, 2007, 4:40pm, Idle Thoughts wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall him saying there was only one other one in his faction, his brother.

You seem to be messing up a lot.



Post 1096 and Post 979...
Mad states he never said there were only 2 brothers, and Cookies says there were an unquanitifed number, or three. I didn't mess up. Stop fishing for some sort of scumtell on me.


Dio, Mad may or may not have said that the number of Sanchez brothers in canon is uncertain. But he most certainly did claim there were only two people in his mason group.

Here. Where he said :


Sept 18, 2007, 3:07am, Mad The Swine wrote:
Anyhow,I don't think it is that big of deal at this point that the scum know how many of us there are.

There are two of us.

As stated in my PM,the other mason is my BROTHER,his name is Sheng.

Ya get that?

My PM said the other mason is my brother.

Do you understand now why I thought that would give away our numbers?


So yes, there are two members of the Sanchez brothers - if Mad is to be believed.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #738 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:10am »


Sept 21, 2007, 1:01am, mhaye wrote:

Sept 20, 2007, 5:36pm, Diomedes wrote:


Post 1096 and Post 979...
Mad states he never said there were only 2 brothers, and Cookies says there were an unquanitifed number, or three. I didn't mess up. Stop fishing for some sort of scumtell on me.


Dio, Mad may or may not have said that the number of Sanchez brothers in canon is uncertain. But he most certainly did claim there were only two people in his mason group.

Here. Where he said :


Sept 18, 2007, 3:07am, Mad The Swine wrote:
Anyhow,I don't think it is that big of deal at this point that the scum know how many of us there are.

There are two of us.

As stated in my PM,the other mason is my BROTHER,his name is Sheng.

Ya get that?

My PM said the other mason is my brother.

Do you understand now why I thought that would give away our numbers?


So yes, there are two members of the Sanchez brothers - if Mad is to be believed.


Hmmm... how very shiny. So if Mad goes down, then we've lost the benefit of having masons, unless he's confirmed his brother beforehand? Startng with only two masons sounds just ridiculous to me. Perhaps that's why I was thinking there must be three.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #739 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:17am »


Sept 20, 2007, 2:05pm, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies wrote:

Sept 20, 2007, 1:50pm, whatthefrak wrote:


I'm guessing at most half, at least a quarter of CatInASuit's votes are scum. Substantiation of that is the sudden jump in votes for him once the number reached a significantly high threshold.


In any other game I've played, I'd probably be inclined to agree with you here, but with our "(.5(#of living players)+1) to lynch" rule, I'd expect that such sudden jumps could easily be higher in townie concentration.


Looking back at past games, I can't remember a single early
Day
during which a lynch was driven by a quarter votes by scum.

By early Day I mean, of course, the first, second and possibly third Day, of course. Does anyone else share my impression?
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 Vote Count
« Reply #740 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:39am »

OK a proper vote count:

11- zuma/Dotchan (Roosh, CatInASuit, sinjin, Cookies, drainbead, diggitcamera, Hal Briston, zeriel, Mad The Swine, FCoD, Diomedes)

8- CatinaSuit (atarus, Yattara, Pygmy Rugger, IdleThoughts, Spaceman Spiff (BlaM), Captain Klutz, dnooman, panamajack)

1-atarus (hockeymonkey)
1- Diomedes (mtgman)

21 of 28 votes cast

6 hours 52 minutes left before the deadline
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #741 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:51am »

I don't really like that we're expecting scum on the block to be able to out power roles. I think we ought to stick to voting based on actions.

I apologize for misunderstanding CatInASuit's claim. I had fallen into the trap of thinking Wash must be a power role as well.

He's not as scummy as I thought he was, but I'm not sure about the claim.

However, there appear to be six people not voting so far, and Cat is down to 8 votes. That means it looks like dotchan, or no-lynch (which would be a terrible outcome to a terrible day).

So I'm switching my vote to the person I think is scummiest, since I can't in good conscience vote for dotchan. She really doesn't read scummy at all.

unvote CatInASuit
vote Diomedes
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #742 on Sept 21, 2007, 2:01am »

Apparently I miscounted the number of votes.

Alright, then, scratch that last switch. (I'm going off the assumption that people aren't going to switch, and the non-voters will decide it.)

unvote Diomedes
vote CatInASuit

(Sorry, NAF.)




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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #743 on Sept 21, 2007, 2:20am »

*brain processes Cat's role-claim*

*whiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrr*

*output: single word*

Fuck.

Okay, so for devil's advocate time. If Cat is scum, his claiming of Wash could be a scum gambit to out the real Wash who might actually have a power role. However, in the absence of a counter-claim (which would most likely definitely end up resulting in a no-lynch for the town at this point, because everybody would be split 'twixt which Wash to lynch) I'll believe Cat.

*grumble grumble* I really thought I had something. *grumble grumble*

Unvote CatInASuit

*looks at dotchan*

Now I'm thinking about the dotchan vote, and my argument before about voting her to get rid of the distraction. And I just realized that if we vote dotchan, and she turns up Ramiro-town, it gives the scum an out to be able to claim a random vanilla person that isn't on the list of Firefly people when they're pressed up against the wall. Even so, we still end the not-a-character-on-the-list debate. But if she turns up Ramiro-scum, we've outed a scum that has a random name, which will make townies with random names uneasy to claim. If she turns up not-Ramiro scum, it's just a general happy Day for town. If she turns up not-Ramiro town, well...DAMMIT I don't even DRINK wine!

At this time, I'm not going to vote for dotchan. However, I'll be around before the deadline, and if the majority of everyone wants a lynch over a no-lynch, I'll help out. If the majority wants a no-lynch over a dotchan-lynch, I won't.

Sigh. I really thought I had something. Sorry Cat.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #744 on Sept 21, 2007, 2:44am »

That was a long grind.

I suppose that this day has gone, in retrospect, how it might have been expected to go.

Really, if someone gets pressed to claim or die, wouldn't you expect them to come up with something? I know I would expect a nameclaim (at least) if not a full roleclaim. And as soon as they claim, people ease off on them so as to give the other players a chance to counterclaim. Let the claim "age" as someone said. And the pack goes off looking for the next victim.

On the main candidates.

The lead is Dotchan. I've said before that I don't see her as scummy. Just because she claims a name that is not known to be in the Firefly 'verse (by us collectively, at least) and she paraphrased on her exact role according to a developing understanding of the terms used (and please note that she, like all of us, is required to express her role in her own words) there are a round dozen1 people howling for her blood.

Next up is CatinaSuit. Our cheerful, ever smiling cat accumulated a lot of votes before roleclaiming. He claims a vanilla role with a major name. Canon-savvy folks agree that having the pilot with no powers (we are, after all, docked in a port right now) is reasonable. I'm not planning to vote Cat any time soon.

Diomedes? His claim is canon-plausible, and if true is a useful power role. Scratch him off the list.

Atarus? I'd need to reread his posts first.

Any other player? Do we really fancy a rushed vote of someone who might be really valuable for the crew? What happens if they claim (say) Zoe?

The alternative is no lynch. People have said that wanting no-lynch is scummy because it gives up the initiative to the Alliance. But, looking at it with an open mind, is it really that terrible?

We would go into Night with a full complement of players. Because we have not killed, the game will run one half-Day longer than it otherwise would if we lynched a crew-aligned player. We get one more perspective on the situation Tomorrow.

The downside is that the players only seem to have eyes for Dotchan and her (rather hypnotic) shiney-ass dance, so there will be even more focus on her tomorrow. And of course if she is some sort of Alliance oriented scum after all, we'd have missed out on killing her Today.

And I'll be eating my hat. My silly orange hat *shudders*

All that being said, right now I'm not prepared to join the crowd baying for Dot's blood. Rather than place a useless vote, I'm going to not vote right now. I've still got a few hours. Maybe I will read Atarus's posts and find out if there is anything incriminating.




1Well OK, eleven. That's nearly a dozen, right? ;)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #745 on Sept 21, 2007, 3:04am »

One thing I fear about a no-lynch is based in another (albeit improbable and admittedly counter-intuitive) fear that if we don't produce a death to learn from toDay, the scum could either purposefully no-kill toNight, or have their Night kill blocked, and we'll be right back where we are on Day 2.

Day 1 has resulted in the exposure of so many names/roles and other information potentially useful to the scum. Without the hard and fast information that only a death can produce (whether it is a scum death or not), I'm concerned about what further exposures we risk if we go into Day 2 without a death.

Does that make any sense at all, or have these 45 pages succeeded in eating my brain?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #746 on Sept 21, 2007, 3:14am »


Sept 21, 2007, 3:04am, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies wrote:
One thing I fear about a no-lynch is based in another (albeit improbable and admittedly counter-intuitive) fear that if we don't produce a death to learn from toDay, the scum could either purposefully no-kill toNight, or have their Night kill blocked, and we'll be right back where we are on Day 2.

Day 1 has resulted in the exposure of so many names/roles and other information potentially useful to the scum. Without the hard and fast information that only a death can produce (whether it is a scum death or not), I'm concerned about what further exposures we risk if we go into Day 2 without a death.

Does that make any sense at all, or have these 45 pages succeeded in eating my brain?


Well, the upside is that, if there's a detective (and it seems there is, according to Hal), we'll start Day 2 with two pieces of information, instead of having only one toDay.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #747 on Sept 21, 2007, 3:22am »


Sept 21, 2007, 12:14am, hockeymonkey wrote:
Unvote CatInASuit

Jebus rutting Christ

We don't have time to build a case against anyone else, but I can't vote for someone I believe to be town. Who then should I vote for? atarus has been further down on my probably scum list, but since everyone near the top has claimed, I suppose it's time to

Vote atarus.

Og help us all. I can't wait for this nightmare Day to be over.


At this stage, without providing ANY sort of reason, you DO realize this is essentially a no-lynch vote, right?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #748 on Sept 21, 2007, 3:24am »


Sept 21, 2007, 12:34am, storyteller0910 wrote:
OK.

I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm just going to take the bullet on this one, because I think there may be others who feel this way but are staying silent for fear that bucking the conventional wisdom is going to get them lynched.

I'm not so sure that I agree that advocating a no-lynch is inherently scummy. I'm not even sure I agree that it's the worst possible outcome anymore.

Really, what's wrong with Greedy's argument, above? If Inara and Mr. Universe is in the game, and Wash isn't, then I'm a parrot. Until someone counterclaims Wash, I am acting as of CatinaSuit is telling the truth.

So, for all intents and purposes, we have the same information we'd have had by lynching Cat, but Cat isn't dead. If a few Days go by without a counterclaim, we may even be able to look at him as a semi-confirmed player.

Right now, we have four options that I can see:

(1) Lynch Cat - who is very probably town barring a counterclaim

(2) Lynch dot - who I do not believe has been shown to be scum

(3) Attempt to rustle up a last minute, ad hoc lynching of a third player - which I think would be the worst idea of all, since such a lynch would be chaotic, ill-thought out, give us little information, and possibly nail or out yet another power role.

(4) Lynch no one. See what toNight's actions reveal. Start over toMorrow, hopefully in a less disorganized fashion.

I definitely think #1 and #3 are terrible ideas; I am unconvinced of the relative merits of #2 vs. #4. I have always said that people should always vote for the person they think is most likely to be scum. For me, voting for dotchan would involve violating this principle, and voting for someone else would result in a no-lynch.

This sucks.

P.S. Do you realize that by the time we had as many posts in Asylum Lane as we have on Day One of this game, we were putting the finishing touches on Day FOUR?


Point taken, and generally I would agree with you. However, I don't believe that we have the luxury of voting for whom we believe is most scummy. We MUST have a majority to lynch, so it changes the rules. Under the other way, if everyone votes for who they feel is most scummy, you're lucky to have a third or so of the town on a particular person (barring some kind of massive slip or fool-proof logic); regardless, you always end up with a lynch. If we no-lynch in this game, we're basically letting the scum pick and choose who they kill and thus not only get to take more shots at power roles, but also manipulate the information we get.

My problem with GreedySmurf's analysis was primarily that it appeared to ignore the other leading candidate, dotchan. I already stated that I was disinclined to vote for her; however, IMO, there is a higher chance of her being scum than Cat, we gain information about namesakes and all that sort of stuff.

At this point that crew has pretty much no information, but the scum no have several role-claims to digest (with the knowledge of which ones are and are not members of their faction), along with the knowledge of how suspected they are, AND more specifically. Meanwhile, we have no way to determine the veracity of certain claims. I am NOT comfortable with all this meta-gaming of "out-guess the moderators". MAYBE if we had tools at our disposal to determine allegiances, it could be used as some sort of support evidence, but not the way we're using it now.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #749 on Sept 21, 2007, 3:29am »


Sept 21, 2007, 2:20am, atarus wrote:
Now I'm thinking about the dotchan vote, and my argument before about voting her to get rid of the distraction. And I just realized that if we vote dotchan, and she turns up Ramiro-town, it gives the scum an out to be able to claim a random vanilla person that isn't on the list of Firefly people when they're pressed up against the wall. Even so, we still end the not-a-character-on-the-list debate. But if she turns up Ramiro-scum, we've outed a scum that has a random name, which will make townies with random names uneasy to claim. If she turns up not-Ramiro scum, it's just a general happy Day for town. If she turns up not-Ramiro town, well...DAMMIT I don't even DRINK wine!


This was one of the major points of my argument against Roosh's plan. We should not be using peoples names, one way or the other, as any kind of major evidence to indict or exonerate anyone. Even if we find that several of the major characters are pro-crew, who's to say NAF/Kat didn't take some creative license with the story (ie, so-and-so was converted, prior to the start, by a reaver; someone had a "change of heart" for whatever reason; etc.).
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