I hasten to add - I do NOT want to know why you are pro-Diomedes. I want to know why you are mentioning this at all right now.
Because I still have accusers against me. Which i dislike and am trying to show proof of my towniness. But yes. I will try to be more tight lipped.
~~~~~~~~~~~ Ugh. I've got work this weekend both days, and So i'll be posting obv. less. ~~~~~~~~~~~
I can't get to the pygmyRugger stuff yet. So instead. I'll give you an Analysis on What the Frak for fun.
Reply #16 (Day 1): "So is there anything to really do at the beginning of the Day other than wait for someone to slip up or randomly vote for someone?" *Note, this gets him called out by PygmyRugger in post 18. "I think I'm going to enjoy responding to wtf!"
Reply #20: Responds to PygmyRugger's response that he'll enjoy responding to WTF: -Believes Zuma's random vote could be non-random. Reply #21: Get's FOS'ed by Zuma for Fishing. Reply #22:Pygmy points out to WTF "It shouldn't lead you to believe anything, yet. I'm surprised zuma didn't start off with a vote for Top Dog!"
Holy crap! I just spent an hour and a half reading seven new pages of posts, and I still have no idea what's going on.
On the other hand, I have a little more insight as to the point of the game, now. It's as much figuring out who the bad guys are as proving to the good guys that you're also one of them, and the catch-22 of trying to prove you're good making you sound bad.
Oh, and I won't make any more judgments (joking or no) until I have a little something more to go on. FOS on me for doing it before.
And then... silence. So... Has he gotten any insight yet? What The Frak.... Are you still playing this game? Are you out there? Or have you gotten lost in the noise?
That was an easy one to do. Maybe next time, I'll do Tragic, and Yatttarra, and the other lurkers in one massive summing up.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Please crew, just consider, if you take away the name-claim counter-claim jabber would you believe him if he just said "oh nos, don't lynch me, I'm a good guy, oh, and by the way I have the power to kill the baddies 50% of the time if they kill me so don't expect me to be night-killed tonight" would you really feel the same way? Especially after all the gazillion pages of bullshit?
Actually now that I think about it I think we should just shove him out the air-lock. If he's telling the truth we have a 50% chance of getting a scum too. And we won't have all of his posts cluttering up the board. If he's scum we get rid of one of them and we also don't have all his posts cluttering up the board. WIN-WIN shiny. Way better odds than a random kill.
Actually, if you look back, I started feeling he was more for the town side long before he ever made any claim.
And that last paragraph really strikes me as anti-town no matter WHAT you are. Vote sinjin
You are doing exactly what you accuse those who choose to give him the benifet of the doubt are doing. Saying "oh no, he's not town, he's scum for sure." Funny. I don't see it. I also don't see anyone saying he's off the hook or that they believe him fully. I see a lot saying they'll unvote him FOR NOW but things change in this game.
I just don't see why you're so hard up to get him lynched and don't bother repeating what you have because I just don't buy it myself.
If you can give some other good reasons (as in, ones that actually have something substantial), I might unvote.
[b]Roosh's Game Theories:... **[u]Step 6 again: since its so important** If no one claims AGAINST said person. And that person is agreed upon by the town to be a likely person to be included in this game. We DO NOT LYNCH that person. We hold off.
sinjin...
Out of curiosity, is this the statement that you fear so many of us are "going along with" in our unvoting of Roosh?
If you're new, I can understand how you could perceive things that way. In actuality, I'd wager that many of us have unvoted him for reasons totally unrelated to what he says in his "Step 6". Reasons like the philosophy that uncontested role-claims are best put on the back burner and given time to age. A claim can't age if the votes keep piling up on someone, so you unvote to protect against a pile-on. Sometimes less than a Day will go by during this aging process, sometimes longer.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
guay even I don't know if he's a total doof or a total scum. But at least I'm asking questions. It just seems to me that every one else is suddenly accepting his extremely flawed premise completely. Don't you see how dangerous this is for the crew? The scum have the perfect out. They say their real names and no one counter-claims because the counter-claim theory is a rutting red herring.
Only if the real name of an Alliance member is Inara. Maybe you haven't seen the show, that's fine. But that's like saying that in a LotR based game, Frodo would be an Ork. Or in a Communism based game, Lenin would be a Capitalist. I'm not saying that they might not be scum (a la the Harry Potter game you mentioned), but I am saying that the mods wouldn't deliberately give their group a name which doesn't fit with the members. If we have a Detective come by and tell us someone's scum, and when we lynch them they turn out to have a good guy's name, then we know that the people who set the game up don't really care about the theme, and we ignore names from then on out. But I don't think that's a likely turn of events.
And I think you have some information whose origin you don't want to tell us. Either you're the real Inara or the detective and you're afraid of getting hit by the rest of the scum this early in the game, in which case you should have just kept quiet, because if Roosh is scum, you're getting whacked pretty soon, and you won't be able to help the town with your powers much longer. Or you're scum, and you're trying to blow smoke up our asses. Or you're clueless, and can't figure out why your suspicions of Roush aren't as valid as a random vote for anyone else who hasn't made an uncountered roleclaim by one of the few characters who pretty much define "Crew". Just because something can be suspected doesn't mean that it has to be.
Jesus rutting Christ on a pogo stick again. I know I said I wouldn't post again, but good god. I am a fan and have watched the movie and the tv show. If you've even read my posts you know that. How can you not understand in a "mafia game" that all will not be as it seems. In the Harry Potter game mentioned previousely all the "good" guys were "bad" guys. At the mafia scum wiki that I reffed above they talk about breaking "theme games" like we're playing by making all the good guys-good guys and all the bad guys-bad guys. Again do you really think NAF and Kat are stupid? If so why are you playing?
And if you want to go with the firefly-verse anybody could be good or bad. I already mentioned this but for the impaired I'll type it in again. Any one can be vamperized by a reaver or had needles inserted into their brain like River. Both of these things caused by the alliance (black hats). And in the NAFKat-verse who's to say it didn't happen before the game started.
And my last paragraph in my last post was a rutting joke. I even included a smiley.
And mods I can't read Roosh's last post, second to last post, who knows which post by now, can you recode it?
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 101 Location: The Black Karma: 4 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #724 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:24pm »
That came out funky. I'll try again.
All he is doing in his "step 6" is repackaging a very common approach to how players handle role-claims. And I just want to make sure you don't think everyone who has unvoted him has done so because it was his great idea. Because that would kinda be like believing this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T5ZbtC0CPk) is telekinetic.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
<snip> pygmy rugger hasn't said much at all, which kind of bothers me. I almost think the "who is scum?" could be scum trying to make a 'dumb mistake' to make themselves look more like town (and possibly gain more information on other types of roles in the game, if lucky). <snip>
It wasn't a "dumb mistake". I've played scum too many times to think that faking a mistake like that, if I were scum, would make people think that I was pro town. I put it in there deliberately, parenthesis and all, hoping that the rest of the citizens would gloss right over it, and if there were a second scum faction they would have answered something besides the Alliance. Blue Sun, for example. And then we would have both found a member of a second scum group, and known there were two scum groups. If there are two, it may have worked, too, if everybody hadn't jumped up and down so excited that they had found a scum tell. I've read a bunch of the past couple days in one or two chunks, but I totally understand the person who wished people hadn't tipped their hands, and just sat on a piece of information they had (without announcing they had said information) for a bit, and seeing if they could pick up any clues based on what they saw.after they figured something out. Kind of like what Roosh does, but without the "OMG, I figured something out, but I'm going to class, and then brushing my teeth, and then feeding my dog, and then I'll tell you guys".
[OOG]There's 12 dry pounds of pinto beans boiling on my stove right now, so at least that part of tomorrow's social is planned for. I got some more help tonight than I was expecting, which is why I have time for a couple posts.[/OOG]
[b]Roosh's Game Theories:... **[u]Step 6 again: since its so important** If no one claims AGAINST said person. And that person is agreed upon by the town to be a likely person to be included in this game. We DO NOT LYNCH that person. We hold off.
sinjin...
Out of curiosity, is this the statement that you fear so many of us are "going along with" in our unvoting of Roosh?
If you're new, I can understand how you could perceive things that way. In actuality, I'd wager that many of us have unvoted him for reasons totally unrelated to what he says in his "Step 6". Reasons like the philosophy that uncontested role-claims are best put on the back burner and given time to age. A claim can't age if the votes keep piling up on someone, so you unvote to protect against a pile-on. Sometimes less than a Day will go by during this aging process, sometimes longer.
Yes that's part of it. But the bigger part is the whole contrived name vs role claim thing. It's not like claiming to be the doctor or the detective or the cop. This is just claiming a name. Like a name is some magic thing and good names=crew and bad names=scum. I can't conceive that this would make a well designed game. And I don't have a problem with unvoting Roosh, but I'd like to see some analysis beyond "oh he claimed a good name he must be good." I haven't seen that for the most part. It's like oh yeah Inara is good in the show she must be good in the game.
<snip> *Note, this gets him called out by PygmyRugger in post 18. "I think I'm going to enjoy responding to wtf!" <snip>
WTF, I'm not sure if you're trying to say anything meaningful with this or not, but I was simply stating that starting a post with WTF is kinda fun. I wasn't calling him out* in any way.
*To me, calling someone out would be like if your friend makes out with a fat girl (not that there's anything wrong with that), and then denies it, you'd call them on it. Or call them out, if it's with a group of people.
And mods I can't read Roosh's last post, second to last post, who knows which post by now, can you recode it?
*blinks* To tell you the truth, I can't read it either. I'll try again after I get some sleep.
Also: blue for votes red for unvotes. I'll count panamajack's reply 709 and sinjin's reply 723, but incorrect color votes and unvotes run strong risk of being missed.
It wasn't a "dumb mistake". I've played scum too many times to think that faking a mistake like that, if I were scum, would make people think that I was pro town. I put it in there deliberately, parenthesis and all, hoping that the rest of the citizens would gloss right over it, and if there were a second scum faction they would have answered something besides the Alliance. Blue Sun, for example. And then we would have both found a member of a second scum group, and known there were two scum groups. If there are two, it may have worked, too, if everybody hadn't jumped up and down so excited that they had found a scum tell.
If there is a second group, though, I doubt they'd have just come out and volunteer the information that would draw attention to themselves.
"Hey, this guy don't know what other groups in the game! Why, I'm in that group! I think I'll tell him what it is! "
Out of curiosity, is this the statement that you fear so many of us are "going along with" in our unvoting of Roosh?
If you're new, I can understand how you could perceive things that way. In actuality, I'd wager that many of us have unvoted him for reasons totally unrelated to what he says in his "Step 6". Reasons like the philosophy that uncontested role-claims are best put on the back burner and given time to age. A claim can't age if the votes keep piling up on someone, so you unvote to protect against a pile-on. Sometimes less than a Day will go by during this aging process, sometimes longer.
Yes that's part of it. But the bigger part is the whole contrived name vs role claim thing. It's not like claiming to be the doctor or the detective or the cop. This is just claiming a name. Like a name is some magic thing and good names=crew and bad names=scum. I can't conceive that this would make a well designed game. And I don't have a problem with unvoting Roosh, but I'd like to see some analysis beyond "oh he claimed a good name he must be good." I haven't seen that for the most part. It's like oh yeah Inara is good in the show she must be good in the game.
Based on what my PM said and what I know about what I am in this game combined with stuff and character write ups I've looked up on wiki, I'm actually wont to believe him and believe that this game IS themed and DOES have all the "good" characters for the good and any possible "bad" ones for the bad.
So there possible strikes down that theory of yours.
<snip> "Hey, this guy don't know what other groups in the game! Why, I'm in that group! I think I'll tell him what it is! "
I've done dumber...
There are also plenty of new and/or inexperienced players that may have thought answering that question with what they knew may have looked helpful and pro-town. I still wish those who did wouldn't have pointed it out, and "let it age", so to speak.
<snip> *Note, this gets him called out by PygmyRugger in post 18. "I think I'm going to enjoy responding to wtf!" <snip>
WTF, I'm not sure if you're trying to say anything meaningful with this or not, but I was simply stating that starting a post with WTF is kinda fun. I wasn't calling him out* in any way.
*To me, calling someone out would be like if your friend makes out with a fat girl (not that there's anything wrong with that), and then denies it, you'd call them on it. Or call them out, if it's with a group of people.
Don't think much of it. I didn't. But it's just there because it was in relation to WTF. Analyzing 4-6 posts is really kinda easy and so i fig. i'd add in the accessory posts as well. No biggie there.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Jesus rutting Christ How can you not understand in a "mafia game" that all will not be as it seems. In the Harry Potter game mentioned previousely all the "good" guys were "bad" guys.
I wouldn't have any problem with Mal, Zoe and Inara being bad guys. I do have a problem with them being members of the Alliance. Why? because their characters weren't members of the Alliance, and I don't find it plausible that a game which was designed to draw fans in would contravene some of the basics of the Firefly plot.
Quote:
At the mafia scum wiki that I reffed above they talk about breaking "theme games" like we're playing by making all the good guys-good guys and all the bad guys-bad guys. Again do you really think NAF and Kat are stupid? If so why are you playing?
That reasoning presupposed a different sort of mafia game: one where the Mods actively attempt to mess things up for the players. That's one of the allures of the advanced-level games on mafiascum.net. But I didn't join this game to prove to NAF and Kat that I was a better player than they were a mod. And I trust that they balanced this game so that we wouldn't have to meta-game the entire time.
Quote:
And if you want to go with the firefly-verse anybody could be good or bad. I already mentioned this but for the impaired I'll type it in again. Any one can be vamperized by a reaver or had needles inserted into their brain like River. Both of these things caused by the alliance (black hats). And in the NAFKat-verse who's to say it didn't happen before the game started.
You're right. And if this game has people vampirized by Reavers or brain-injected, I expect that to be a power of Reavers. Or Blue Sun Corp operatives. I can see a certain amount of straying from a starting point, but why even call it "Firefly" if whomever gets the Mal Reynolds role is a Reaver, or The Operative isn't a bad mother fucker? We have our own names as one level of anonymity enough. there's no reason for a second level of anonymity, unless NAF and Kat expected us to bog down in this morass. If they did... well, screw them [shakes fist at skies, a la King Lear in the storm speach]
Quote:
unvote: Roosh
The funny thing is, sinjin, this gorram near takes the cake for me. Why unvote Roosh at this point? You haven't changed your mind, obviously. Now... you're voting in some sort of hope that people will forget what you've done? Honestly, while this seems sleazy to me in a broader sense, it doesn't quite seem scummy, either. It just seems dumb.
There are also plenty of new and/or inexperienced players that may have thought answering that question with what they knew may have looked helpful and pro-town. I still wish those who did wouldn't have pointed it out, and "let it age", so to speak.
Let it age...? Hmm... what is this "strategery" you speak of? Do you have a newsletter?
Based on what my PM said and what I know about what I am in this game combined with stuff and character write ups I've looked up on wiki, I'm actually wont to believe him and believe that this game IS themed and DOES have all the "good" characters for the good and any possible "bad" ones for the bad.
So there possible strikes down that theory of yours.
I'm not saying every good-guy is a bad-guy or every bad-guy is a good-guy just that a salting of the switcheroos adds flavour and randomness to the game. I know I'm a bad guy in ff-verse but a good guy in NAFKat-verse. That's what caused all the confusion in the initial pm's and the NAF clarification. Did you check dnooman's character?
Dnooman's character is definitely a proud citizen of the Alliance. However, he's not a bad guy. Even when he's opposed to Mal, he's not a bad guy, he's not part of what makes the Alliance bad. That's what caused the confusion in the initial PMs.... because almost everyone in the show is under the rule of the Alliance to some extent or another, 'Alliance citizens' are considered aprt of the good guys. Good guys who are defined as 'Crew'
<snip> and if there were a second scum faction they would have answered something besides the Alliance. Blue Sun, for example. And then we would have both found a member of a second scum group, and known there were two scum groups. If there are two, it may have worked, too, if everybody hadn't jumped up and down so excited that they had found a scum tell. I've read a bunch of the past couple days in one or two chunks, but I totally understand the person who wished people hadn't tipped their hands, and just sat on a piece of information they had (without announcing they had said information) for a bit, and seeing if they could pick up any clues based on what they saw.after they figured something out. Kind of like what Roosh does, but without the "OMG, I figured something out, but I'm going to class, and then brushing my teeth, and then feeding my dog, and then I'll tell you guys". <snip>
No I'm not unvoting Roosh because I think he's not scum. I'm unvoting him because I don't want to get the lynch Roosh message confused with the WTF why are we buying into his name-claim theory message. And because of cookies remarks. I should have made that clear, but was distracted by RL for a moment. And the lynch Roosh issue was definately distracting people from what I've been trying to say.
SO if we could re-focus on three points I would be very happy.
1) Setting an artificial dead-line before the official dead-line so we don't end up with a no lynch situation. Fifteen votes are very hard to get. If we get to Thursday without a decision we're humped. A friday deadline was discussed and dropped as was a monday deadline. No lynch is not good for crew. What happened to this discussion?
2) Lurkers where the guay are you?
3) The name claim theory for outing scum (not role claim) entirely produced out of the head of Roosh that many people seem to be accepting full cloth.
I know I'm a bad guy in ff-verse but a good guy in NAFKat-verse. That's what caused all the confusion in the initial pm's and the NAF clarification. Did you check dnooman's character?
Yeah, I saw it. And you also said you were "on the same team" earlier. So I assume you're also just an Alliance Citizen but who's pro-town? And someone from the show who is usually seen as "not so good" but have an alignment of good in this game? This makes me wonder then. Even some people say Dnooman's character could be seen as goodish. But the way you're so hard up on saying "Don't assume bad is good and good is bad" makes me think you have someone who is downright BAD in the show and are afraid the people in this game will assume it's bad here too.
In other words, you could be setting yourself up a save for later if/when you have to claim to say "I'm [blah], AND I KNOW THEY'RE A VERY BAD, EVIL PERSON IN THE SERIES, but I swear I'm on the good side. And now you know why I was saying don't assume all bad characters will be good in this game and vica versa."
arrghhh, no I'm not. I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't just look at a persons name and assume they're bad or good automatically. For example is the Operative good or bad? is Jayne good or bad? based solely on the tv/movie verse. And KatNAF have the freedom to change whatever little bits of this they want. Why is this so hard to dong ma?
I can't do this anymore tonight.
NAFKat I think you should you should start modkilling people who think you're stupid.
<snip> SO if we could re-focus on three points I would be very happy.
1) Setting an artificial dead-line before the official dead-line so we don't end up with a no lynch situation. Fifteen votes are very hard to get. If we get to Thursday without a decision we're humped. A friday deadline was discussed and dropped as was a monday deadline. No lynch is not good for crew. What happened to this discussion?
2) Lurkers where the guay are you?
3) The name claim theory for outing scum (not role claim) entirely produced out of the head of Roosh that many people seem to be accepting full cloth.
1) It seems like people want to be able to catch up after the weekend, so sometime Monday evening seems fair.
3) I think I speak for a majority ( ) when I say that we're not accepting it whole cloth. After a few scum die and a few citizens are revealed, we'll have a better understanding of how the charachters were named. We're not saying, "Oh, Roosh is so and so, she (is it really she ) must be a good guy!", we're saying, we now know who Roosh is, so we'll be able to come back to it later when the need arises. You've been called out already for insisting that we still lynch Roosh. Why are you still doing it?
I am not who I think I am. I am not who you think I am. I am who I think you think I am.{=}{/=}
Dave Guest
Re: Day 1 « Reply #749 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:36pm »
This message was posted by dnoonman. Edit comment: Edited by Kat to insert above sentence.
I plan on keeping my vote on Roosh. This is based mostly on the principle that I need to vote for the person that seems scummiest to me.
I'm troubled by Roosh's fluctuations, his apparent "scum might die if I get night targeted" position, and an overall feeling that he's not being as forthright as he could be.
I am not able to further clarify my role, position, or alignment without breaking the rules. I will try to adhere to the rules to the best of my abilities.
It seems to me, that what is going on here, might be a classic situation wherein townies jump on town, and we're stuck in a paradox.
Unless a hammer vote happens, there is no lynch. Hammer votes and those leading up to them are circumspect by default. This puts town in a very precarious position. Any hammer vote will be seen as being a scum townie hammer, regardless of the intentions of the hammerer.
The idea that we can all agree on a lynch also seems a bit far-fetched to me. However, if we can't agree, no lynch happens, and we basically forfeit our chance to kill a scum.
I really don't know what to do here.
Maybe we can establish some sort of hierarchy that mandates the lynching of non-compliant parties.