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Sept 21, 2007, 12:28am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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Yattara
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1200 on Yesterday at 1:16am »
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I can't say I know Dio's name, since I never saw the movie. But the name at least, is genuine. Whether Dio's claim is, is still up in the air. We'll have to see.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1201 on Yesterday at 1:45am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 1:16am, Yattara wrote:
I can't say I know Dio's name, since I never saw the movie. But the name at least, is genuine. Whether Dio's claim is, is still up in the air. We'll have to see.


The character is definitely in the movie, and he lives in a room filled with computer monitors and a lovebot (think halfway 'twixt a RealDoll and the killbots from Austin Powers) named Lenore. He's an uber-techno dweeb character. I will mention, as a caveat, that although he's generally on the crew's side in the movie, he -does- sell them out in the end.
He's a perfect fit for the role of watcher: someone in this game should have this role. Too bad it happened to be me. :)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1202 on Yesterday at 1:45am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 12:59am, storyteller0910 wrote:
Suddenly I find my attention drawn to the four players who still have votes on Diomedes. What, precisely, is your justification for this? "I think he's lying" doesn't cut it, because unless you have more information then you're sharing, you don't know if he's lying, and the downside of lynching him if you're wrong is much larger than the upside of lynching him if you're right.


Well, people are voting me based on the fact that they think I'm lying. Plus I tend not to switch votes unless I find a more suspicious target.

But I guess I should follow my own advice of not voting for uncontested roleclaims.

unvote Diomedes
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1203 on Yesterday at 1:50am »
[Quote]

Well, I think we really need to get on to the actual lynching part. And I have been reluctant to lynch dotchan, because she has had one or two slips in this game, again. And we know what happened the last game she "slipped".

Still, she's one of the scummiest of the current lynchables and, even though I'm extremely wary of mtgman's actions, including his latest vote, made after Dio claimed, I'll still

unvote mtgman
vote dotchan
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1204 on Yesterday at 2:07am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 12:47am, Diomedes wrote:
Obviously a claim well before things start getting anywhere near hammering stages is required. mgtman came in and voted for me, without comment, well after my role claim. Hell, I think I've actually gone up on people's scumdar because of it.


Obviously? No, it isn't. You still don't even have half the votes required to get you close to a lynch, and yet you're acting paranoid. For the second time, no hammers are going to drop without some amount of review. Have you not realized that it's your severely premature claim that may have prompted these votes? It's at least part of the reason I've kept mine on you. It's so anti-town that it's dangerous.

The scum aren't the only ones who need to deceive in this game, at least early on. Power roles need to stay hidden, and vanilla townies need to look like power roles. The second-best result a townie can have is to get killed, most especially by scum thinking they're a power role. You win with the crew, whether or not you're alive or dead. And the best chances we have of winning is by keeping the power roles alive and the scum confused.

You have what is potentially a very powerful role, quite possibly the most important role for us since we don't know who's in the game, and you've revealed yourself on Day 1. It wouldn't have taken much to come up with a plausible explanation until things looked dire. That's the other reason I think you're scum - you panicked when it looked someone had caught you, and felt you needed a quick covering move.


Yesterday at 12:59am, storyteller0910 wrote:
I can't figure out a single good reason why we would lynch a person who has claimed a power role, for which there has been no counter (either of the role or of the name). If he's lying, we will have plenty of opportunity to find out later in the game. If he's truthful, and we lynch him, we've lost an incredibly powerful role.


There was something I half-suspected about what really happened with Hal last night.
If what Hal says is true, then possibly ...
Diomedes investigated him, but is not Mr. Universe. He's a scum investigator/observer (okay, I'll say the words - "Alliance spy").
Only I'm not sure why Hal wouldn't mention the name, unless the name he was given* was actually a player name and not the character. In this scenario, which is unlikely, Dio (as a spy) could have investigated either of them, and come up with enough information to make a false claim, expecting that Hal could back him up.

The point is, a scum spy is one role we need to take out quickly. Such people usually aren't on the scum boards, and can only talk out here in the open. So if we can get him before he actually finds a power role, we need to.

*This is what I don't get about Hal's claim. Why should he be able to detect investigations? Possibly it's something about his role, or it's something about Mr. Universe's role (people always know they're being watched, but think it was someone else? That'd be odd). [to Hal : obviously there was some reason you chose not to reveal, and I'm not looking for more information Today. TomorrOw, maybe.]

It's all speculation, but it is in my head, which is why I wasn't 'totally sure' about this. I'm keeping my vote because I don't want this issue forgotten. I'm not (at this point) actively advocating lynch, and I'll gladly go after someone else if it comes down to it.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1205 on Yesterday at 3:31am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 2:07am, panamajack wrote:
Only I'm not sure why Hal wouldn't mention the name, unless the name he was given* was actually a player name and not the character.

No, I was given the name of the character who checked me out. I didn't (and still don't) see a whole lot of benefit to revealing their name (or at least I don't see more town benefit over scum benefit).

As to your wondering why I should be able to detect investigations, I can't say that I generally would be. The person who I know investigated me (and I'm dabbling in a bit of speculation here) apparently has a nightly ability to make themselves know to one player. I cannot say if this is an every-night ability, a one-time ability, a percentage play, or what. All I know is this person checked me out and (and I think this is the important part of the role) provided me with a small piece of information (nothing earth-shattering). That's pretty much the entent of my knowledge.

I can certainly believe that Dio chose to investigate me, and happened to be blocked, or perhaps he has a percentage play on his investigations. I know I said earlier that I was "skeptical" about his claim, and although I'm not going to say I know he's telling the truth, he claims a very important role, and I'd be hesitant to look to squash that role off of some "maybe"s.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1206 on Yesterday at 4:27am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 3:31am, Hal Briston wrote:

Yesterday at 2:07am, panamajack wrote:
Only I'm not sure why Hal wouldn't mention the name, unless the name he was given* was actually a player name and not the character.

No, I was given the name of the character who checked me out. I didn't (and still don't) see a whole lot of benefit to revealing their name (or at least I don't see more town benefit over scum benefit).

As to your wondering why I should be able to detect investigations, I can't say that I generally would be. The person who I know investigated me (and I'm dabbling in a bit of speculation here) apparently has a nightly ability to make themselves know to one player. I cannot say if this is an every-night ability, a one-time ability, a percentage play, or what. All I know is this person checked me out and (and I think this is the important part of the role) provided me with a small piece of information (nothing earth-shattering). That's pretty much the entent of my knowledge.

I can certainly believe that Dio chose to investigate me, and happened to be blocked, or perhaps he has a percentage play on his investigations. I know I said earlier that I was "skeptical" about his claim, and although I'm not going to say I know he's telling the truth, he claims a very important role, and I'd be hesitant to look to squash that role off of some "maybe"s.


I wish more posts in this game were like this. Hal, you've created a small island of familiar comfort where the information provided is compatible with the open set ups that some of us are more accustomed to: useful information about what someone who is playing can apparently do without giving away anything (that I can see) about that player or that the scum could use to their advantage.

If everyone doesn't mind, I'm just going to stand here on this island for awhile, and pretend that it is not surrounded by a sea of rutting scary gos se. ;D
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1207 on Yesterday at 4:53am »
[Quote]

Right now we're a little less than 24 hours away from a no-lynch. Is it too early to switch our focus to the two highest vote getters in order to at least try to lynch someone, or do we want to just let the discussion develop and see where it takes us? It seems a lot of people are reluctant to do this. At this point, is a no-lynch actually better than the risk we're undertaking by basically forcing a run-off 'twixt the two highest vote getters, one of whom is currently unclaimed?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1208 on Yesterday at 4:54am »
[Quote]

EBWOP: By "less than 24 hours," I meant "more than," of course.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1209 on Yesterday at 5:11am »
[Quote]


Sept 19, 2007, 10:38pm, CatInASuit wrote:
My point about not voting for someone because of their name is as follows. Just because a character might be bad in the Firefly canon, it cannot be said they are bad in this game. So taking someone's name from the Firefly canon and voting on them purely because yiou think the character portayed is evil is a mistake. To prove this point, I used the example of the Operative from the firefly movie who could be either town or scum depending on what NAF/Kat felt like.

This applies to people who have a character that can by found in the Firefly canon.

dotchan claimed a name of "Ramiro", which cannot be found in the firefly canon character lists. So "Ramiro" is not a character in the game, so dotchan's character cannot be called Ramiro. Therefore dotchan is lying.

Lynch all liars in the same way as I went after MadTheSwine., which is why my vote has not wavered and will not waver.

To me, an equivalent would be claiming a power role that does not exist in an open game and expecting everyone to believe it.

I can see where dnooman is coming from with his concerns, but I think a second slip by dotchan means they are groundless.

NAF said that not all the characters in the game would be on the lists. Well we have discovered two of them today, is there likely to be a character named in the game not on the lists?

Any questions. [/size]
Ok, I have a real problem with your logic. See, I can't find my character name ANYWHERE. It's not on the wiki lists, it's not on any other Firefly sites I've found, it just doesn't exist. And I know I'm not scum, so your logic is crap, to me. You've done enough scummy things for me to be comfortable with switching my vote to you.

Unvote drainbead.
Vote CatInASuit.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1210 on Yesterday at 5:28am »
[Quote]

Just an observation..


Yesterday at 1:45am, Diomedes wrote:
I will mention, as a caveat, that although he's generally on the crew's side in the movie, he -does- sell them out in the end.


Bolding mine.
Reading this snipped part along with this:


Yesterday at 2:07am, panamajack wrote:
In this scenario, which is unlikely, Dio (as a spy) could have investigated either of them, and come up with enough information to make a false claim, expecting that Hal could back him up.

The point is, a scum spy is one role we need to take out quickly. Such people usually aren't on the scum boards, and can only talk out here in the open. So if we can get him before he actually finds a power role, we need to.


It's sounding an awful lot like Sneaky Sam's role did, if those all are the cases.


Anyway, I agree (believe it or not) with Drain Bead, which leads me to think that the scum are reallllllllllllly trying to look like town in this game. : p

I find both CIAS and dotchan to be suspicious, although CIAS a little more by this point.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1211 on Yesterday at 5:42am »
[Quote]


Sept 19, 2007, 10:38pm, CatInASuit wrote:
dotchan claimed a name of "Ramiro", which cannot be found in the firefly canon character lists. So "Ramiro" is not a character in the game, so dotchan's character cannot be called Ramiro. Therefore dotchan is lying.

Lynch all liars in the same way as I went after MadTheSwine., which is why my vote has not wavered and will not waver.

To me, an equivalent would be claiming a power role that does not exist in an open game and expecting everyone to believe it.


I suggest you take a look at the Chia Bingo Panic(tm) of Asylum Lane. mhaye's Chia Bingo Manager role was, as far as I remember, not listed or even indicated to exist by the host, and that was in an open game setting. Granted, not many people took mhaye's side, but he got killed and it turned out he was telling the truth. So anything can happen.


Sept 19, 2007, 10:38pm, CatInASuit wrote:
NAF said that not all the characters in the game would be on the lists. Well we have discovered two of them today, is there likely to be a character named in the game not on the lists?


Buh...bwuh...wha? I have to agree with story's post about apples here...this quote makes absolutely no sense to me. If I've interpreted this correctly, you're saying that NAF indicated that not everyone will be on the list, then you're asking if it's possible for a name-claim to be not on the list?

I'm keeping my vote on Cat. HOWEVER. This is an issue I'd like to bring up to voters of dotchan. Are the 8 or so voters on dotchan right now going to continue to pursue voting dotchan Tomorrow (toMorrow?) if she is not lynched toDay? Are we going to have to go through a debate about the technicalities of Ramiro and her role-claim etc. etc. every Day from here until dotchan is lynched? If dotchan is going to be a distraction every day, it might be a good idea to lynch her now, just so the town can get back on track and focus on getting scum.

I *don't* think dotchan is scum, personally. But I *do* think that lynching Dotchan might be beneficial for the town, just for the fact that if she is Ramiro, she turns up Ramiro when she's lynched, and the entire "well a character may/may not be on the list" debate will be stone-cold stopped and we can get on with finding scum. We lose a vanilla townie, yes, but we also lose a distracting debate that could rage on for Days and help scum out. If she turns up something else, well, we still get more information.

I'd prefer a Cat lynch to a dotchan lynch. But I prefer a dotchan lynch to a no-lynch, because with a no-lynch we solve no debates, and the distractions and clusterfucking continues into toMorrow.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1212 on Yesterday at 5:44am »
[Quote]

Okay. By my count, we have 8 voting for dot, 7 voting for Cat, 7 voting for "other," and six not voting.

I'm voting for dot because I'm not wanting another role claim toDay. If dot turns out to be town, we can deal with Cat's inevitable role claim tomorrow. If dot is scum, cat at least looks a bit better--not exonerated, of course, but we might be able to do better Tomorrow. And if dot is town, the worst we're doing is offing a vanilla--which still sucks, but might not be as harmful to us in the long run as forcing another role claim toDay would be. Does that make any sense?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1213 on Yesterday at 5:48am »
[Quote]

I'll equally fine with lynching dotchan with Cat. As a matter of fact, after atarus' post, I'm more inclined to keep my vote with dot, just in order to lay this whole Ramiro thing to rest.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1214 on Yesterday at 5:48am »
[Quote]

EBWOP: Adding "on top of the other reasons why I'm voting for dot, which I've already stated before and don't feel like rehashing..."

Hopefully that will keep Idle off my back. ;)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1215 on Yesterday at 5:53am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 12:47am, Diomedes wrote:
Obviously a claim well before things start getting anywhere near hammering stages is required. mgtman came in and voted for me, without comment, well after my role claim. Hell, I think I've actually gone up on people's scumdar because of it.

And if you good folks do decide to lynch me today despite the fact that I've claimed a power role, whose abilities are uncounter-claimed, along with a name from the FF universe, which is uncounter-claimed.... well, I suppose I'll have no trouble sitting in the dead-thread and rooting for the baddies.
I was planning on adding some commentary around my vote. Right about then my eleven year-old started throwing up because she's caught the stomach bug which has run through pretty much everyone else in the house(including me) over the past few days. So I'll try for it now. I'll probably be spending a lot of time composing this post, but hopefully it will be worth it. Ok, one of the scum tells I look for is people picking fights for no obvious reason, and then folding like a house of cards when they meet resistance. Below is your first post in Day 1. Nearly ten full days of real time before we need to have a vote in, and here you are, swinging.
Sept 11, 2007, 11:34am, Diomedes wrote:

[snip]

Now, as far as first day voting goes: I've only ever played this game live, and first votes tend to be based on hearing some slight shifting as Scum try to silently inform the Mod who they want to kill. I'm going to go out on a limb and throw out an initial vote, based on nothing. (If anyone wants to instruct me what I'm supposed to be looking for in first day scumtells, I'll be happy to listen)

[color removed]Vote: whatthefrak
When called on it? A fluff response and another vote, albeit jokingly.
Sept 11, 2007, 3:46pm, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 11, 2007, 3:28pm, Greedy Smurf wrote:

I for one originally expected there to be some real basis for votes right from the get go, a notion which I was quickly disabused of :)


As the voter for WTF, let me question what we were going to base our votes on? Should I vote for Hal Briston, because the theory of probability* says that, as often as people have thought he was scum, he must be scum by now?

Fine.

[color removed]Unvote: WTF[/color]
[color removed]Vote: Everyone who hasn't been scum yet[/color]
One post later, after meeting some resistance from Spaceman Spiff, here's where he went. Back to putting pressure on someone for no justified reason(that we have knowledge of).
Sept 12, 2007, 4:46am, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 12, 2007, 12:26am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:

FTR, I'm also suspicious of Diomedes, but it is largely because of the tone of his posts, and thus it is unsubstantiable.

Yeah, I'm sorry about last night. I was getting a little frustrated. The light of day brings me a clearer (if still confused) mind. Lemme go back to where I was:

[color removed]Vote: WTF[/color]
A couple posts(mostly fluff, although he should get credit for accurately trying to convince Idle Thoughts about how the majority/plurality thing works) later, we get a "me too!" vote with no original analysis.
Sept 13, 2007, 2:03pm, Diomedes wrote:
I don't want to continue to be one of the odd-man out voters, so I'm going to switch (this time for real0 from my initial random-newbie vote to on eo f the current leaders.
While I think Roosh's request for Mad to role-claim was totally bunko, and I'm not the biggest fan of the guy's posting style, I don't really get a scum-read for him. I just can't imagine scum going as far out on limbs as Roosh has done in this first Day. A loss by the scum hurts them much worse than a townie loss hurts us. Similarly, I don't really understand any of the reasoning behind voting for MtS, at this point.
dnooman has raised my hackles a little, for the reasons drainbead outlined, but I get a full-flavoured feeling of scummitude from Idle Thoughts. I'll try to go back over all of his posts, and give a fuller explanation as to what has gotten me to start thinking this way, but for now,
[color removed]Vote: Idle Thoughts[/color]
Did he follow up with the analysis promised? That's a significant question. The answer is nope, he copped out.
Sept 14, 2007, 12:45pm, Diomedes wrote:
So: Major note to self: Don't make a vote and say that you're going to come back later and explain it. This game moves crazy fast, for one, and it's also ap retty dick move. Sorry Idle Thoughts.

I'm going to go back, more methodically over a few of the top suspects tonight and try to come up with which one of the top suspects I'm going to toss my vote for. I will say, for one, that I'm not going to throw dnooman out automatically just because of his claim. Claiming an Alliance citizen as your role (even a flip-floppy one), and also saying you're town doesn't entirely ring true to me.
So, after his re-read, here's what he came up with.
Sept 14, 2007, 3:12pm, Diomedes wrote:


[snip]

dnooman's seems scummier than ever to me. He's stated that his win condition is predicated on the alliance being dead, right? That doesn't necessarily mean he's town, however. Psychopaths win when scum is dead. Furthermore, he claimed a role which absolutely could be Alliance, and anyone can claim to be Crew. If it wasn't for the fact that support for tossing him into the afterburners seems to be waning right now, I'd vote for him.

Pygmy Rugger, however, seems just as scummy to me. His entire 'scheme' to find out about a second scum faction seems entirely implausible to me, and makes me think he was just trying to play dumb, at first. Furthermore, finding out about the presence of a second scum faction would help scum just as much as the town. As a townie, my win condition is that I win with the Crew, and all Alliance members are dead. There wasn't said anything about all Alliance and all Blue Sun members are dead. Scum might not have that information in their PMs.

[color removed]unvote: Idle Thoughts[/color]
[color removed]vote: Pygmy Rugger[/color]
Yep, that's a third person he's picked a fight with, and that's back on Sept 14th, about halfway through the first Day. He kept his vote there for about 24 hours(a record thus far I believe) during which his only other comment about Pygmy Rugger was
Sept 14, 2007, 11:14pm, Diomedes wrote:

[snip]

However, I still think Pygmy is scummier than month-old milk. My vote stays with him, for toDay. Tomorrow, however, dnooman's gotta die.
and then... another "me too!"
Sept 15, 2007, 4:27pm, Diomedes wrote:
Idle and sinjin have, with their powers combined, convinced me.

[color removed]unvote: pygmy[/color]
[color removed]vote: sinjin[/color]
Although to be fair, this one seemed to be backed up. The few posts before this vote were him expressing disbelief at sinjin's statements and mixing it up a bit. Had this been his only vote I'd be getting a good townie read. But it's his fourth, and not his last. I also find it interesting that he's listening to the analysis of Idle Thoughts, someone he thought was scum a couple vote/unvote cycles ago. And again, his reasons for abandoning it seem weak.
Sept 16, 2007, 2:33pm, Diomedes wrote:
Nice catch, Idle. I still think you're a fucker, but dotchan should gorram well know what town is called in this game.

[color removed]unvote: sinjin[/color]
[color removed]vote: dotchan[/color]
And now we come up on my second-favorite post from our friend.
Sept 18, 2007, 12:49pm, Diomedes wrote:
::grumble grumble grumble::

Who the guay am I supposed to vote for? I've forgotten why I voted for pygmy and sinjin... you want me to go back and read all the mess I've written?

[color removed]unvote: dot[/color]
Remember, scum don't want to be accountable for their actions. They're acting on non-public information. They can't be accountable without revealing the real reasons they voted as they did. So they try to shroud thier reasons for their votes, either with "me too!" tactics, or promises to come back later and substantiate(which they typically fail to deliver on) or other stuff. Also their "townie-dar" is both more accurate, and has more pings than any townie's scum-dar. So they're comfortable with their votes being on a substantial number of people(both townies and fellow scum) whereas townies tend to latch onto an event which pinged their scumdar and to let that one event lead their analysis. Scum have the luxury of being able to jump around in their suspicions/votes because most of the players in the game are their enemies and even if they jump on a teammate, it builds credibility for later. And now the ultimate in unaccountability, and my personal favorite Diomedes post.
Sept 19, 2007, 4:09am, Diomedes wrote:

[snip]
random.org says [color removed]CatInaSuit swings[/color] tonight.
But wait! There's more! How long did you think he'd stick with his streategy of random voting? My guess was "until someone provided him a good excuse to "me too!" again" About three and a half hours.
Sept 19, 2007, 7:50am, Diomedes wrote:
Now going back and thinking about it, I suppose dot could have picked up on the earlier nameclaim. I suppose I like the idea of voting for an unusual name more than I like the idea of voting for whoever random.org tells me to. At this point, I'd be fine with lynching pretty much anyone who's an unknown.

[color removed]unvote: Cat[/color]
[color removed]revote: dot[/color]

To all you scum out there laughing at us: screw you guys. Screw you guys right in the pooper.
Now, about his claim. I'm not buying it. There are a number of "watcher" roles in Mafia games. The reporter, the cowardly reporter, the delivery boy, the night watchman, etc. The role, as Diomedes describes it, is the most useless implementation I've yet seen. Fuzzy screens when the object says he was investigated means a conflux of very improbable things happened. This conflux doesn't survive Ockham's razor.

I also think he's more likely to be lying about his role than Hal Briston is because Hal's counter-claim(saying he was investigated) is sure to get him lynched on Day 2 if it turns out Diomedes is telling the truth. There's no reason for Hal to counter-claim unless he's town and thinks Diomedes is scum. If Hal is scum then this is a gambit the scum don't need to play, they'd be throwing Hal away if they did this because IF Diomedes is telling the truth, and he is an investigator then the scum can kill him tonight without having Hal counter-claim and raise suspicion on himself.

So at this point I believe Hal and disbelieve Diomedes. I think his claim of "fuzzy screens" is another smokescreen, just like his "me too!" votes.

Enjoy,
Steven
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1216 on Yesterday at 5:53am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 5:44am, drainbead wrote:
Okay. By my count, we have 8 voting for dot, 7 voting for Cat, 7 voting for "other," and six not voting.

I'm voting for dot because I'm not wanting another role claim toDay. If dot turns out to be town, we can deal with Cat's inevitable role claim tomorrow. If dot is scum, cat at least looks a bit better--not exonerated, of course, but we might be able to do better Tomorrow. And if dot is town, the worst we're doing is offing a vanilla--which still sucks, but might not be as harmful to us in the long run as forcing another role claim toDay would be. Does that make any sense?


A question for the town in general.

Would my role claim help for those people coming online now or wait until tomorrow when it may a bit late? I would rather not roleclaim unless necessary, but feedback is welcome.

I would prefer any lynch to a no-lynch and obviously I would prefer a dotchan lynch instead of my own but if my lynch would better serve the town then so be it.

(Oh grief now I sound like dnooman and his martyr complex :P )
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1217 on Yesterday at 5:57am »
[Quote]

It makes sense to me Drainbead.

And i am now hesistant over Diomedes, as it was a good point. He didn't mention per say in night 1 what his roles were, using more vague terms than I had originally chalked up to him.
However, his roleclaim seems to be a powerful one, and I'm not willing to even attempt to lynch a power role "just to prove a point" no matter how suspicious i think he is on DAY ONE.
If he's a watcher and he keeps on living, fine, he'll have chances to prove his innocence, mainly in that we'll know we're recieving one piece of potential info every night. And if he dies. Well, we'll also know what he is then. Either way it's information.
And at this stage of the game, i think that's what we need. REAL CONCRETE information.
No more wifom, no more guessing. Just names and bodies.
So Atarus, will i continue to hunt dotchan if she lives past today, Not so much unless she turns out to be scummier and scummier. Already we've not lynched her and we've had another series of role claim, one by someone who could be our only cop role being outed. This is just too much, and its needless. Information is good, and i'm totally for that, but there IS a limit. This is overplaying our hands and revealing too much. I think we need to stop the hemorraging and just End this rutting Day, preferably without a no lynch, and preferably without outing MORE powerfuckingRoles at this point.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1218 on Yesterday at 5:59am »
[Quote]

I don't want to quote that whole manifesto for a tiny portion where I'd probably mess up the nested quotes, mtgman, but could that mention of Hal in the third quote box down in your last post have been a Diomedes breadcrumb?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1219 on Yesterday at 6:01am »
[Quote]

Please.
No more roleclaims if it can be helped.
For the love of god...
-_-
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1220 on Yesterday at 6:05am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 5:42am, atarus wrote:

I *don't* think dotchan is scum, personally. But I *do* think that lynching Dotchan might be beneficial for the town, just for the fact that if she is Ramiro, she turns up Ramiro when she's lynched, and the entire "well a character may/may not be on the list" debate will be stone-cold stopped and we can get on with finding scum. We lose a vanilla townie, yes, but we also lose a distracting debate that could rage on for Days and help scum out. If she turns up something else, well, we still get more information.


I just don't understand this. Lynching town is simply never beneficial for the town. Period. I don't care if a player is distracting, if "we might get information from their lynch," if they talk too much in your mind, if they show up and call you names - if you think they aren't scum you shouldn't want to lynch them.

I find this paragraph suspect, actually, because it looks a bit like a set-up. Convince everyone to lynch dotchan to "quiet the debate" - which is exactly the reason that everyone decided to lynch dotchan in the last game, a move that almost cost the town the game, by the way. She dies, and is revealed as crew. But you've already announced that you think she's crew, so you look shiny.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1221 on Yesterday at 6:16am »
[Quote]

Drainbead,


Yesterday at 5:44am, drainbead wrote:
<snip>If dot is scum, cat at least looks a bit better--not exonerated, of course<snip>. <snip>


How do you figure?


Yesterday at 5:59am, drainbead wrote:
<snip> but could that mention of Hal in the third quote box down in your last post have been a Diomedes breadcrumb?


How do you figure?

Also, drainbead, I would like a rebuttal to the post I made in response to your vote, here:


Sept 19, 2007, 3:32am, Rugger, Pygmy wrote:

Sept 19, 2007, 2:53am, drainbead wrote:
<snip>I see that he was a late vote on almost every bandwagon. He was a late vote on dnooman. He was a late vote on Mad. He was a late vote on dotchan. And now it looks like he's trying to get a bandwagon going for CatInASuit.

[colorBlue]vote pygmyrugger[/color]


I don't even know how to dignify this train of thought with a response, but I'll try.

First, you're using the fact that I was a "late" vote in "almost every bandwagon". My vote for dotchan was the only one I'd qualify in that manner. That vote, was, in fact, intended to help the town avoid a no lynch today.

Second, if you'll please note that my vote for Mad was also unvoted in the very same post I made the vote. I wanted that vote to be on record, because of my suspicion of the way the claim was made. I fail to see how that can be considered a "late" vote in any way.

Third, how can you FoS me for having late votes, and conclude your argument by stating that you find it suspicious now that I'm voting "early"? I simply don't understand.

I'm going to look up the context of my dnooman vote, as I don't remember it at this time.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1222 on Yesterday at 6:18am »
[Quote]

And here:


Sept 19, 2007, 3:41am, Rugger, Pygmy wrote:

Sept 19, 2007, 2:53am, drainbead wrote:
<snip> He was a late vote on dnooman.<snip>


Ok, I found it. I think we have a different definition of "late vote" I was the seventh person to vote for dnoo. That's less than half of the majority, and less than a quarter of the town. When the heck do you expect me to vote? In fact, discounting my vote for Mad (for reasons stated in my previous post), my other three votes have been "early", "mid early", and "mid", to majority.

It seems to me you're reaching here, and using me as a scape goat. The only reason I can think of is that, since it has been proposed that we focus on those that have votes on them right now, you're a scum, and one of your scum buddies is also in that group of six (seven?), and you're trying to draw attention away from the lot of them.


Again, how do you figure?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1223 on Yesterday at 6:20am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 5:59am, drainbead wrote:
I don't want to quote that whole manifesto for a tiny portion where I'd probably mess up the nested quotes, mtgman, but could that mention of Hal in the third quote box down in your last post have been a Diomedes breadcrumb?
I would hope he wouldn't breadcrumb if all he had to go on was "fuzzy screens". This was also way back on page 3 when Hal was more active. He hasn't been mentioned much recently because of his haitus, but he was still on the radar as an active poster at the time.

Still, something to think about, and a good close read find. Not enough to change my vote at the moment because most of my vote is based on his "throwing stones and then chickening out of an actual fight" behavior. All the role claims on Day 1 have muddied the waters a lot and I'm sticking with my scumdar over role claims for roles I don't even know exist(because it's a closed game).

Enjoy,
Steven
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1224 on Yesterday at 6:28am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 6:20am, mtgman wrote:

Yesterday at 5:59am, drainbead wrote:
I don't want to quote that whole manifesto for a tiny portion where I'd probably mess up the nested quotes, mtgman, but could that mention of Hal in the third quote box down in your last post have been a Diomedes breadcrumb?
I would hope he wouldn't breadcrumb if all he had to go on was "fuzzy screens". This was also way back on page 3 when Hal was more active. He hasn't been mentioned much recently because of his haitus, but he was still on the radar as an active poster at the time.

Still, something to think about, and a good close read find. Not enough to change my vote at the moment because most of my vote is based on his "throwing stones and then chickening out of an actual fight" behavior. All the role claims on Day 1 have muddied the waters a lot and I'm sticking with my scumdar over role claims for roles I don't even know exist(because it's a closed game).

Enjoy,
Steven


OK, let's say I accept everything you've said. Which, in some ways, I do - Dio's claim does seem to rely on a lot of unlikely (but not impossible) coincidences. I still don't understand your vote for him, in the absence of a counterclaim or any real evidence that he is lying.

Once again, if you're right, then we bag scum - this is good, obviously, but there are other scum in the game. Diomedes isn't going anywhere; we can continue to reassess the likelihood of his claim moving forward, and lynch him at literally any time if more definitive evidence that he is lying surfaces. We can, in other words, reverse not lynching him at any time.

On the other hand, if you're wrong, we lose a town power role. Unless there's another Chia Bingo Manager floating around, we can't reverse that decision.

Or, in other words, I'm going to see your Occam's Razor and raise you a Pascal's Wager. Thoughts?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1225 on Yesterday at 6:37am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 6:16am, Rugger, Pygmy wrote:
Drainbead,


Yesterday at 5:44am, drainbead wrote:
<snip>If dot is scum, cat at least looks a bit better--not exonerated, of course<snip>. <snip>


How do you figure?


How do I figure that cat looks better if dot is scum? cat has been pushing for a dot lynch for quite some time, and while this might be a scum gambit, I think it's more likely that if dot is scum, cat is town.


Quote:
Today at 3:59pm, drainbead wrote:
<snip> but could that mention of Hal in the third quote box down in your last post have been a Diomedes breadcrumb?


How do you figure?


Eh, I was trying to figure out what it might have been like had Dio been telling the truth, saw that little mention of Hal and wondered whether or not that might have been what he did. If I were a watcher-type, tried to investigate someone and got nothing back, I might have tried to breadcrumb it a bit. I don't know if anyone would have been able to gather anything from that particular crumb, but it's just another way of looking at the same information. And if he did try to breadcrumb his failed investigation of Hal, it lends credence to his claim, which is why I was trying to look at it from that POV. I don't want to see people pushing to off a potential watcher role if I can help it.


Quote:
Also, drainbead, I would like a rebuttal to the post I made in response to your vote, here:


Sept 19, 2007, 3:32am, Rugger, Pygmy wrote:


I don't even know how to dignify this train of thought with a response, but I'll try.

First, you're using the fact that I was a "late" vote in "almost every bandwagon". My vote for dotchan was the only one I'd qualify in that manner. That vote, was, in fact, intended to help the town avoid a no lynch today.

Second, if you'll please note that my vote for Mad was also unvoted in the very same post I made the vote. I wanted that vote to be on record, because of my suspicion of the way the claim was made. I fail to see how that can be considered a "late" vote in any way.

Third, how can you FoS me for having late votes, and conclude your argument by stating that you find it suspicious now that I'm voting "early"? I simply don't understand.

I'm going to look up the context of my dnooman vote, as I don't remember it at this time.


I was defining "late" as "more than half of the voters on the wagon had voted before you rang in. That, combined with your "what are the scum called" slip (despite your explanation), makes me suspicious of you. Right now, I see pressing reasons not to vote for you, especially since nobody else seems to agree with me, but I'm going to keep you in mind for the future.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1226 on Yesterday at 6:38am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 6:05am, storyteller0910 wrote:
I just don't understand this. Lynching town is simply never beneficial for the town. Period. I don't care if a player is distracting, if "we might get information from their lynch," if they talk too much in your mind, if they show up and call you names - if you think they aren't scum you shouldn't want to lynch them.

I find this paragraph suspect, actually, because it looks a bit like a set-up. Convince everyone to lynch dotchan to "quiet the debate" - which is exactly the reason that everyone decided to lynch dotchan in the last game, a move that almost cost the town the game, by the way. She dies, and is revealed as crew. But you've already announced that you think she's crew, so you look shiny.


I would agree with you, that yes, lynching a townie is never beneficial, if this were an OPEN game. However, this is a CLOSED game, and lynching dotchan gives the town something we desperately need: information. How many of the debates we've had this game have been over things that would have never been debated if this were an open set-up? I'm willing to bet that there'd be a ton of less posts on this Day 1 if this were open, and it's because of the lack of information that's making people debate things and create grandiose theories.

I don't think dotchan is scummy. I think Cat is scummy, that's why my vote is on Cat. But at least 8 people DO think dotchan is scummy right now. That's why I asked if people are going to continue voting for/being suspicious of dotchan toMorrow. What happens if we get a no-lynch toDay, then toMorrow people continue to be suspicious of and try to lynch dotchan? What if she gets lynched toMorrow instead of toDay and ends up townie? Then we've wasted two Days and gotten the same information as if we had lynched her on the first Day.

I still want a Cat lynch over a dotchan lynch, as I think Cat is scummy and lynching him would be MORE beneficial than lynching dotchan. More benefits (lynching Cat) > Some benefits (lynching dotchan) > No benefits (no lynch).
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1227 on Yesterday at 6:42am »
[Quote]

At this point, we've got about 2 hours left, and 2 people in the lead for votes.
Can we just record what those other dudes who are voting Solo (ie: they're the only one's trying to vote for a person) have them record their "Votes" for posterity, and then consider one of the 2 people in the lead for votes? Unless they're fine w/ going for a no-lynch. In which case, you all might as well just go ahead and say it, because thats what those 1 person votes are doing. Unless you honestly beleive that 14 people are going to join your side in the next 2 hours.....

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1228 on Yesterday at 6:44am »
[Quote]

Actually we have just over a day left, dusk is tomorrow at whatever time is noted on the ticker on the front page according to timezone.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #1229 on Yesterday at 6:49am »
[Quote]


Yesterday at 6:37am, drainbead wrote:
<snip>
I was defining "late" as "more than half of the voters on the wagon had voted before you rang in. <snip>


If by "rang in", you meant voted, then, by definition, all votes are made after all previous votes for that person have been cast. I fail to understand. If you mean that I happened to be in the second half of those that voted before a role claim was made, I'd like to point out that all role claims toDay have been made before a potential lynchee garnered, IIRC, eight votes. Eight. That number is ridiculously low, it's no wonder I was fourth through eighth in exactly two "bandwagons", which didn't even reach double digits.
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