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Sept 21, 2007, 12:23am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #510 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:35am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 8:15am, dnooman wrote:
My name is Sheriff Bourne. Don't let that mislead you, it not a cop role. I have no special powers. I am an Alliance citizen, however, I am a vanilla crewperson with the alignment "crew". My win condition requires all Alliance to be dead.


Damnit! I don't think you needed to claim quite this early.

Anyway, if this is true, this goes right in line with my suspicions about your "slip" and with regard to names and a potential correlation to their roles.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #511 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:35am »
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FTR, I don't even own an orange hat.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #512 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:39am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:15am, dnooman wrote:
My name is Sheriff Bourne.


OK Well, it gets a tick on the "Minor Firefly characters" Wikipedia entry at least ;D

I can't really explain why, but I believe Dnoo's claim, it just feels solid to me.

So I am going to Unvote Dnooman

Only problem now is, I don't think Roosh is scum, so I'm not sure who to vote for.

I don't like to base a vote on what may very well be just a misremembering or an incorrect impression but seeing as how he is the only one blipping my radar at present I will Vote MadtheSwine

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #513 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:46am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:39am, Greedy Smurf wrote:

Sept 14, 2007, 8:15am, dnooman wrote:
My name is Sheriff Bourne.


OK Well, it gets a tick on the "Minor Firefly characters" Wikipedia entry at least ;D

I can't really explain why, but I believe Dnoo's claim, it just feels solid to me.

So I am going to Unvote Dnooman

Only problem now is, I don't think Roosh is scum, so I'm not sure who to vote for.

I don't like to base a vote on what may very well be just a misremembering or an incorrect impression but seeing as how he is the only one blipping my radar at present I will Vote MadtheSwine



If Roosh isn't hitting your radar, then can you address what I'm missing just a few posts back in reply #508?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #514 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:47am »
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Hrm, our first role claim. And while I'm not particularly happy that you did it this soon, I can see why you did, as it explains the Night post relatively well.

I'm comfortable with keeping my vote on Roosh.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #515 on Sept 14, 2007, 8:54am »
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OK, this post has been bothering me for two reasons


Sept 13, 2007, 2:16pm, Greedy Smurf wrote:
Well this is certainly an interesting Day 1.

I'm left wondering about what is underlying the Mad/Story exchange.

Are we looking at a scum engineered argument? or two townies who have managed to push each others buttons, or as both of them would have us believe, a townie has latched onto a scum?

Personally I find Mad's accusations & evidence a bit light on, but I also find Story's reaction to it a bit OTT.

I'm not sure what I think but I will certainly be marking both Mad and Story down as people to keep an eye on. So to sort of make it official-like FOS Mad, FOS Story


First, I find it highly unlikely that Mad and Story, as scum, would hatch a plan such as this on day one. Maybe later in the game, but on day 1? What is to be accomplished by such a plan? Story gets mad lynched on day 1, gaining some credibility, sure, but it would hardly exonerate him. I just cannot see scum pulling such a gambit right out of the chute.

Second, how does Greedy Smurf know whether or not scum even had a chance to talk on night 1? Unless I'm missing something, we were only told that non-killing power roles would have a chance to use their powers. I wouldn't have made such a charge if I had no indication that scum had been able to talk prior to day 1.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #516 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:06am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:54am, zuma wrote:
Second, how does Greedy Smurf know whether or not scum even had a chance to talk on night 1? Unless I'm missing something, we were only told that non-killing power roles would have a chance to use their powers. I wouldn't have made such a charge if I had no indication that scum had been able to talk prior to day 1.
Here is NAF's mention of the night start from the rules thread.
Quote:
10) We will be having a night head start. All the non killing power roles will be able to use their power tonight. No one will die, but the town will have some info at daybreak.
I'm not sure if I would classify scum chatter as a power or not, but I interpreted this as the scum getting a chance to talk.

Enjoy,
Steven
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 VOTE COUNT
« Reply #517 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:07am »
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Vote Count Time!


8- Dnooman (FCoD, hockey monkey, zuma, Captain Klutz, panamajack, Roosh, Pygmy Rugger, CatinaSuit)
6- Roosh (Blaster Master, Zeriel, dnooman, drainbead, sinjin, Hal Briston )
3- Mad the Swine (storyteller, atarus, Greedy Smurf)
1- Idle Thoughts (Diomedes)
1- Storyteller (Mad The Swine)


20 out of 28 votes cast
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #518 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:10am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:46am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


If Roosh isn't hitting your radar, then can you address what I'm missing just a few posts back in reply #508?


I have reread your post. It was the next to last post I got to after catching up on 2 pages worth so was sort of skimming by then :-[

I'm not suggesting you're missing anything Spiff. And I think your points are well placed. But surely what seems scummy to you doesn't necesarily mean it has to seem scummy to me.

Personally I get the "townie with a bad idea" vibe from Roosh, which in conjunction with his posting style makes him look pretty bad. Plus townie with a bad idea is not very far from Scum with an intentionally bad idea!

But, I had to weigh up where to place my vote, For me it was going to be either Roosh or Mad. As I said above I think Roosh is town, with the above caveat about him, which to me won out to my thinking on Mad which is I'm not sure really but a baseless attack on Story is pretty suss.

All that being said I doubt Mad will garner enough votes, so I am prepared to switch to Roosh if it is needed to avoid a no-lynch day.



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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #519 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:11am »
[Quote]

Unvote Dnooman

I'm starting to feel that Roosh is scummy. I also felt that his post explaining himself seemed like backpedaling. I'm unsure who to cast a vote for right now, but Dnooman's claim reads sincere.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #520 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:24am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:18am, atarus wrote:
Okay, Idle said this earlier and I was like *shrug*, okay. But now two people have said that I'm suspicious but they don't know why. I know I can't force an explanation out of either of you, but it's unnerving when people start saying you're suspicious but they can't figure out why. ???


If I may try...I think it just comes from a mixture of tone, how you put things, reaction to things and combine that with personal feelings, gut, the like.

Maybe even a bit of experience thrown in as (and speaking for myself only) I've played a lot of these online and have an idea how scum usually sound (also with the advantage of being one before). You just sorta give off the air of some shadiness, I guess. I know it's not anything specific that you can defend yourself against, but there it is.


Sept 14, 2007, 9:07am, NAF1138 wrote:
Vote Count Time!


8- Dnooman (FCoD, hockey monkey, zuma, Captain Klutz, panamajack, Roosh, Pygmy Rugger, CatinaSuit)
6- Roosh (Blaster Master, Zeriel, dnooman, drainbead, sinjin, Hal Briston )
3- Mad the Swine (storyteller, atarus, Greedy Smurf)
1- Idle Thoughts (Diomedes)
1- Storyteller (Mad The Swine)
1- zuma (Idle Thoughts)

20 out of 28 votes cast


I actually unvoted zuma earlier (in red too :) ) But it's okay, I know how hard this game must be with a huge, long topic. It's why I suggested multiple topics for one Day.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #521 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:26am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:54am, zuma wrote:


First, I find it highly unlikely that Mad and Story, as scum, would hatch a plan such as this on day one. Maybe later in the game, but on day 1? What is to be accomplished by such a plan? Story gets mad lynched on day 1, gaining some credibility, sure, but it would hardly exonerate him. I just cannot see scum pulling such a gambit right out of the chute.

Second, how does Greedy Smurf know whether or not scum even had a chance to talk on night 1? Unless I'm missing something, we were only told that non-killing power roles would have a chance to use their powers. I wouldn't have made such a charge if I had no indication that scum had been able to talk prior to day 1.


To clarify/explain my thinking for you Zuma,
Point 1 - I know it is unlikely scum would engineer a to and fro like this on Day 1, which is why I put down my thinking on the options that could explain the exchange. Maybe I should have said I think blah is the reason for it rather than writing out all the possibilities? If it makes it clearer I think it is likely two zealous townies trying to find scum, with a smaller possibility that Mad is scum trying to smear Story.

Point 2 - I don't know whether the scum were able to talk last Night or not. It didn't even enter my mind, as I thought the possibility of both Mad & Story being scum was highly unlikely. But as I said it was one of the three possibilities I arrived at and I like to put down all the options to be clear.


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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #522 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:29am »
[Quote]

I was all ready to argue that any win condition that is different than my own is bad when I see that there is a role claim. Oh well.

I believe dnooman's claim. It sounds genuine to me, and it's close enough to my own role PM for me to accept it. Unvote dnooman.

Vote MadTheSwine for his very strange lie about storyteller. I don't think Roosh is scum, I just think he's clueless. No offense, Roosh!

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #523 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:30am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 9:06am, mtgman wrote:
I'm not sure if I would classify scum chatter as a power or not, but I interpreted this as the scum getting a chance to talk.


Let's find out:

NAF/Kat, with the possibility that you would deny this question, based on the rules, can you clarify if scum got to strategize last Night?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #524 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:35am »
[Quote]

I totally believe dnooman. One reason relates to a single word that Roosh never used in his manifesto or at all previous to that. He's used it twice since but only in copy. Town-folk you know the word I'm talking about.

And not to beat a dead horse I still think there's something about his assertion that alliance members don't have names or have bad names and so have to make up good names to prove themselves that just rings wrong. Several people have since pointed out a) a lot of characters on Firefly are ambiguous and b) that NAFKat could have arbitrarily changed a good character to a bad in the game or vice versa and c) that this naming methodology would have broken the game. Roosh basically ignored this reasoning in his theory and subsequent posts by saying yeah there were a couple of flaws in his reasoning. A couple!!!!

I think his original idea that the baddies didn't have names is an amazing tell because a number of the Alliance bad guys don't have names. But all of the others, good, bad and some times ambiguous do have names. How would he know the scum in this game didn't have 'real names' if he and his fellow alliance scum didn't all turn up with non-names in night one?

And he's now back-pedalling like mad and being all nice and meek.

I still say vote Roosh. Oh and if he is alliance I think some players have left tells in their posts defending and chastising him. Take a peek backward.

Oh and un-FoS Diomedes Sorry dude.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #525 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:40am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 9:30am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Sept 14, 2007, 9:06am, mtgman wrote:
I'm not sure if I would classify scum chatter as a power or not, but I interpreted this as the scum getting a chance to talk.


Let's find out:

NAF/Kat, with the possibility that you would deny this question, based on the rules, can you clarify if scum got to strategize last Night?



Yes, the scum did get to talk last Night. Sorry that wasn't clear. One of the major benefits of being scum is the ability to Night talk, thus in my mind them talking at night=using a non killing Night power.

(I can see, now, that might not be the way everyone think about it. )
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #526 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:51am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 6:22am, mtgman wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 5:34pm, storyteller0910 wrote:
I think I'm done with this. I feel like I'm in bizarro-Mafia-land
Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get the fuck over it. You've done the exact same thing in other games. It seems to be your opening gambit, to act the persecuted reasonable man amongst a sea of irrational other players. It's old, let it go.

On the general topic of using observations from other games in current games, I think it's fine. Firstly because there's no way to stop it. An impression is an impression and you're not going to be able to wipe that from game to game. Whenever I sit down with my playgroup to play Magic I know gorram well I'm a target and they'll be ganging up on me. It's just something we have to deal with, reps follow players. Secondly, because it works! For example, storyteller0910 works on formulating an overall strategy as soon as possible during each game, and starts acting on it. In M2 his stated strategy was to make himself unlynchable because he couldn't be night-killed. In M5 his stated strategy was to distance himself from his fellow monks as early as possible, even if it meant making up gos se and exaggerating drama to do so. There is simply no way I'm going to mind-wipe myself to forget what I've learned about his playstyle. Mad the Swine probably feels the same. I'm uncertain about Mad the Swine's current accusation, but the general principle is sound.

On the topic of lurkers. I'm suspicious of lurkers on general principle, but someone who posts once or twice a day(fifteen to twenty posts over the course of the first Day) can't really be considered a lurker. Perhaps they are getting lost in the noise generated by more prolific posters, but that's hardly their fault. A search for their posts should turn up enough to give someone a read on them.

I'm not seeing the huge scumminess in dnooman's night post that others are, but since we have to reach a majority on someone, and I have no particular reason to think him/her town, I'd go along with it if that's where the wind is blowing.

Personal suspicions still rest with Idle Thoughts for the various amounts of drama he's brought to the table thus far. The guy has had to have his nonsense reigned in by the mods twice already. Firstly over the majority rule thing and secondly over the resources used when creating the game ruleset. He's the epitome of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" at the moment, and that's a scum tell to me.

Enjoy,
Steven


Congrats, mtgman, you earned my vote!

vote mtgman

Now, mtgman is one of those players whose behavior has never really shown up on my radar. Even though there was plenty of discussion of his role in M5, I never really "saw" him. In other games/roles he has been in neither he nor I have really crossed words/swords at all.

Here, however, his behavior is interesting. He picks up a theme which, obviously, has irked another player whose participation has usually been pretty interesting (when he doesn't get killed in Night 2, that is). And runs with it.

The funny thing is, he picks up on that player's behavior during his (very successful) run as super-scum and during his run as a monk (pro-town) (leaving aside his most recent, successful role as normal citizen).

Interesting too is his underlining of supposed strategies during those two games without even trying to sketch the current strategy storyteller would be using (for my part both his first and his most current participation both show signs of similarity to his participation during the Firefly game).

All in all, I don't know whether Mad the Swine set storyteller up and mtgman is slam dunking. Or whether scum (mtgman) just saw a glaring opportunity to run storyteller out of the game and took it. But mtgman definitely looks like scum to me.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #527 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:52am »
[Quote]

You guys need to be careful. I think a few of you are pushing it a bit regarding quoting mod pms. I wouldn't like to see anyone modkilled.

unvote: dnooman
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #528 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:54am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 9:52am, zuma wrote:
You guys need to be careful. I think a few of you are pushing it a bit regarding quoting mod pms. I wouldn't like to see anyone modkilled.

unvote: dnooman


For instance?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #529 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:55am »
[Quote]

Now, I can't really do that without quoting my pm, can I?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #530 on Sept 14, 2007, 9:59am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 9:55am, zuma wrote:
Now, I can't really do that without quoting my pm, can I?


Didn't you say? ...

Quote:


I think a few of you are pushing it a bit regarding quoting mod pms


I'm asking a link/quote to/of any of those instances...
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #531 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:02am »
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I think dnooman's role-claim and sinjin's response went too far. I'm kind of a stickler about that rule though as I consider it game-breaking.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #532 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:06am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 10:02am, zuma wrote:
I think dnooman's role-claim and sinjin's response went too far. I'm kind of a stickler about that rule though as I consider it game-breaking.


I don't think they broke the rule, at least in spirit. However I do think that if dnooman is telling the truth, that a lot of people are foolishly tipping their hands with their responses to him. :-/
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #533 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:07am »
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I think they broke the rule in spirit, and you're right about tipping their hands, BlaM. I think a few of you need to knock this gos se off... you're not helping us.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #534 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:08am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 10:06am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:

I don't think they broke the rule, at least in spirit. However I do think that if dnooman is telling the truth, that a lot of people are foolishly tipping their hands with their responses to him. :-/

Wow, that grammar is completely busted. Let's try: "However, I do think that if dnooman is telling the truth, a lot of people have foolishly tipped their hands with their responses. :-/"

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #535 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:24am »
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Ok sorry if I busted something here, if it's necessary to modkill me do so. I don't want to ruin things for everybody. It is my first game and I guess I don't understand all the rules. I just want to add that I figured out my word thing while driving home from work before I saw any of the early afternoon posts. But obviously you don't have to believe me. And if it does break the rules it doesn't make any difference anyway.


So NAF or Kat ruling please.


I will post no more until I hear.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #536 on Sept 14, 2007, 10:31am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 9:52am, zuma wrote:
You guys need to be careful. I think a few of you are pushing it a bit regarding quoting mod pms. I wouldn't like to see anyone modkilled.

unvote: dnooman


I didn't quote it verbatim, as the other townies know (assuming the role PMs were cookie cutter). I did need to keep some of the specifics in there though, to show that I'm not BSing.

I kind of wish that nobody had said anything about the hand tipping. I was counting on one or two scum making a slip up in that regard as well, but now the hand tipping is public knowledge.

If things slow down for me this weekend, I'll try to get my read on, and give an actual analysis.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #537 on Sept 14, 2007, 11:04am »
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Well, I'm not modkilling anyone without a discussion with NAF. Until then, I'll ask that the topic be tabled. But feel free to post about everything else.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #538 on Sept 14, 2007, 11:12am »
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[out of game]
First, and foremost, I'd like to apologize to the mods and the other players for my intemperance earlier today. I let external stress affect my reactions. I still think mtgman's drive-by insult was pointless and unpleasant, but I had no business responding in kind, and especially no business clogging up the board with a personal squabble.
[/out of game]

So now I need to comment on mtgman from an in-game perspective, which I will do cautiously. Specifically, my comment concerns this post:


Sept 14, 2007, 9:51am, diggitcamara wrote:


Congrats, mtgman, you earned my vote!

vote mtgman

Now, mtgman is one of those players whose behavior has never really shown up on my radar. Even though there was plenty of discussion of his role in M5, I never really "saw" him. In other games/roles he has been in neither he nor I have really crossed words/swords at all.

Here, however, his behavior is interesting. He picks up a theme which, obviously, has irked another player whose participation has usually been pretty interesting (when he doesn't get killed in Night 2, that is). And runs with it.

The funny thing is, he picks up on that player's behavior during his (very successful) run as super-scum and during his run as a monk (pro-town) (leaving aside his most recent, successful role as normal citizen).

Interesting too is his underlining of supposed strategies during those two games without even trying to sketch the current strategy storyteller would be using (for my part both his first and his most current participation both show signs of similarity to his participation during the Firefly game).

All in all, I don't know whether Mad the Swine set storyteller up and mtgman is slam dunking. Or whether scum (mtgman) just saw a glaring opportunity to run storyteller out of the game and took it. But mtgman definitely looks like scum to me.


Surprisingly enough, I don't agree. Here's the thing: rereading mtgman's initial post from a cooler perspective, I think the motive behind it is simpler than what you suggest above: I think it's very likely that he just plumb doesn't like me. I mean, check it out - the insult was, as I said above, essentially a drive-by. It didn't even seem to have an in-game purpose. It's not like he said anything to suggest that I was scum, or even to lightly smudge. It was just an expression of disdain for - not suspicion of - my posting style.

If mtgman were trying to finish of MadtheSwine's alley-oop, as it were, wouldn't he have at least turned his attack slightly in the direction of suggesting something scummy about me?

This is not to say that I think mtgman is or isn't scum - just that I'm not so sure his remarks on the subject of my posting style were intended as particularly in-game, and therefore didn't seem scummy to me.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #539 on Sept 14, 2007, 12:09pm »
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Nobody's gonna get modkilled sinjin, I wouldn't worry about that.

The rule says:

Quote:
5) You MAY NOT quote any PM’s from Kat or myself in the game thread


Our roles are something that we need to be able to supply on demand, as are our names.

I'm interpreting the above rule as "do not quote mods verbatim, and do not imply that you are doing so". I can also see why the mods wouldn't want to be quoted directly for confidentiality reasons, and because of quotes being potentially taken out of context. I don't see the intent of the above rule meaning "you may not describe your win condition, affiliation, or title". I'd lay money on that.

"Don't quote me" can mean "don't attribute statements to me", "don't repeat every word I said" or "don't use the same words I did". I'm thinking that the intent of the rule is more along the lines of the first two examples. Besides, one can only assume that all of the information in one's role PM will be made public upon their death anyways. Why would we be provided with info that we can't mention, and isn't revealed upon our death? That doesn't make sense.
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