Because I've tried to explain, at great effort, the reasons why we should conditionally accept uncountered roleclaims to players who seem incapable of understanding those reasons?
Of course not that. I've been agreeing with you on that.
It's just that you seem not to say much yet you type a lot. You're very, very helpful though at making sure everyone finds the information they want or need or are asking for. Yes, that's the main reason.
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I think a lot of your proposed scum team seems to be based on suspicions of normal human behavior. DrainBead gets the wording of a post confused in her mind, and makes assertions based on it? And then takes back what she said based on a further investigation of the facts? If there were five pages of posts to go over, I might buy into that, but we've got, what, a thousand posts to go over? Sounds human to me.
As far as zuma/dotchan goes... well, I hardly think that we have enough information on zuma's weirdness to get an understanding as to whether it was scummy, or just that he picked up on an odd reaction to Mad's reaction (and mine, perhaps?) to dnooman's role claim.
Not at all. I was talking about how he voted for Blaster, actually and then tried to keep everyone from talking about something (rather aggressively, too) afterwards and when it was finally allowed, he ran out of the game.
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Dot's reactions don't seem to be particularly strange toward's Roosh's roleclaim. She hasn't voted for him, she's just suspicious of him. If there is a different Inara out there, who has a particularly strong power role, there might be very good reason for lack of a counterclaim.
That's well and good as it is. Thing is, that's not what I'm reading.
I'm reading people saying that 1: Inara might not even be for the good side in this game (something I have a hard time believing).
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Mgtman.... well, he seems a little scummy to me, too. But it's mostly an unjustifiable reason, like my earlier suspicions of you. Meh.
Understandable.
I'm really thinking that at least one (probably only one) of our role claims has to be bunko. When the numbers start climbing against someone, with the hammer lynch rule in place, there's very little that will save someone other than a roleclaim. If I were a scum, I'd roleclaim at that point just in order to salvage something out of my potential lynching.[/quote]
Yeah, but come on...a semi-MAJOR role? One that would probably be put into the game? One that, if you're lying, someone else probably would have and might counterclaim against? I can see a scummy role claiming someone who is a minorish character, but not someone really big. That's just killing themselves in due time.
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Why are you voting for [b]sinjin if she's not part of your Scum-Allstars team?
I've found Drain Bead to be seemingly inconsistant. Saying one thing in one post but then changing it if it doesn't sound good to anyone in the next. She also jumped at the chance to think that Roosh's name claim might be scum in this game even though that character is not typically a bad one from what I gather. Also, like I said in my longish post earlier today, I DO happen to now thing that the characters are the same in the game as they are in the show for the most part. I also feel she's tripped on lot of things scum might do in this game but tried to fix them later on (like the one fix where she started to accuse Roosh again of being scummy because he supposedly "knew" of two separate killing groups but then took it back after remembering it was already pointed out by the mod that there is.
(underlining mine)
I did not read the whole sign-up thread, so I never saw that critical bit of info. I'd imagine quite a few others did not as well. When mhaye told me that the mods had brought it up, I went back to re-read the thread looking for what Roosh said about it. I found it and quoted it. If I were scummy, don't you think I'd make someone else do all the work to prove what I was saying to be wrong?
I never saw or read that part either at the time. I wasn't talking about the list of players that was going to be IN the game. That line that you underlined is talking about how I believe that the good characters (in the series) are good in the game and the bad characters (in the series) are going to be bad in the game.
So what are you on about? It sounds like I'm talking about apples and you oranges.
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And I've consistently said, from the moment I made my first post in the sign-up thread onward, that I know nothing about Firefly. Never seen the show or the movie, not once.
You think that'll work with me? I haven't either. Not the movie, not the show. So claiming ignorance won't work with me. I don't think it matters if you've (or anyone) has seen the show or not. I've never seen the show and already I can say (based on what I know about myself in this game and have seen others that I feel are town say in this game and seen even OTHERS say that is general knowledge about the series and characters) that chances are, Inara will be, in this game, exactly what she is in the series. An overall good person.
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So forgive me if I might be more likely to think that Inara = scum than those who know the character. In fact, I'm pretty amazed that you would even bring that up as a point against me--hell, I've always asked people who know more about the canon than I do to analyze my ideas in terms of whether they make sense within those constraints.
Same here. And, in case you haven't seen it, it seems the people who know the show are mostly coming back with: "Inara? I think she'd be a GOOD TOWN person in this game.".
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But my biggest question about your post is what I underlined in the quote. How do you know that the characters in the game are the same as they are in the show?
Very easy. Because I lean more toward believing Roosh is Town. Being that as it is, I trust his roleclaim. Being THAT as it is, it would mean Inara was Town.
Combining that with what I know about my name and alignment and what I've heard and read about how my name is on the show, that's TWO people who are "Good" characters in the show that are also "good" characters in this game.
Added to the fact is dnooman (whom I also believe) is someone who people say is a character who is in the Alliance but is sometimes good (and not totally bad/evil). This would be a THIRD one then, since his role would be "Alliance Town". Someone who I think would be more or less neutral in the FF world or slightly bad but good at heart or good overall but with some bad habits.
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You may know YOUR character is the same, but you can't possibly know about anyone else's, unless somehow you can communicate with others and know what their roles are. I'm sure you had no intention of just outing yourself as scum or a mason, did you?
You must be joking. You are being deliberatly obtuse. I can BELIEVE claims and people just like you can disbelieve them. Me, I choose to believe Roosh and dnooman, therefore I believe their claims. Therefore yes, On the basis that I believe them, I am almost sure all the characters alignment will be the same-ish in this game.
However a number of folks just used the no counter-claim reason for exonerating him. This to me is still ASTOUNDING because it is solely based on Roosh's theory that scum have no names or generic names. There is no basis to believe this. That is what I arguing about so voraciously last night. I finally figured out DOH! that people were taking my arguments as a demand that Roosh be lynched immediately. So I unvoted him to try to separate the lynch Roosh theme from the "Why are we suddenly buying into this theory" theme.
1. I have since pointed out, then that it is possible for scum to have names. Either Names with mixed alignments, or obscure names. There is also the fact that the Mods posted somewhere that there is at least 1 name that is NOT on the wikipedia list, it might have just been created by the Mods. So scum CAN have names. But if there is a possibility of a generic scum group, then my idea is valid. If there is a group of scum but they all have "Evil" names, then my idea is valid, but requires PROOF. IE: We need a bunch of evil dead guys to start showing up when people are dying.
That's why i need further data. To establish my idea, we need lynches/nightkills. Once we see more dead people, AND their roles, then we'll be able to see if there EVEN IS a correlation 'twixt roles and names. That is my current stance: More data is needed to prove my hypothesis.
"That is what I arguing about so voraciously last night. I finally figured out DOH! that people were taking my arguments as a demand that Roosh be lynched immediately. So I unvoted him to try to separate the lynch Roosh theme from the "Why are we suddenly buying into this theory" theme. "
2. Heh. This is exactly what I did when I said "role claim!" instead of Name claim to BlasterMaster. I'm amused to see someone else feel the wrath of the angry semantics Town. Just because you know your intent, doesn't mean WE know your intent. And your quick unvoting, just made it seem like you were trying to backpedel* and look townie by agreeing with the majority rather than sticking out anymore. Your actions seemed like you tried to push a lynch. It failed, and so you back-pedaled* to cover your actions and try to look "innocent townie" again by not trying to get so much heat (which in turn will give you more heat. It's a vicious cycle). My vote is on you currently, because I'm not sure what it truly is. You could be Noob Town trying to save your skin. Or you could be Noob Scum trying to save your skin. Either way, it sucks, doesn't it? I sympathize.
*Huh. I remember these accusations being thrown against me as well....
~~~~`Crew vs. Town And yes. that threw me as well. But it's really hard to NOT quote PMs when the sentence is only a few words long. But that is correct. I am NOT an alliance Townie. That is why I was suspicious of Dnoo.
That 'crew' label was what I was obliquely talking because I didn't want to bring it to the attention of scum and give them more information. -Diomedes already did that night 1. If they haven't figure it out by now, they're idiots.
So if Roosh wasn't on dnooman's team he wasn't on mine either. . :sigh: see. I am feeling bad for you. You do look like a confused townie. But there is a lot of WIFOM in here. Because yeah, you could be confused townie, or confused scum.
So I will continue to keep my vote on you and accept that responsibility. However, if i do see a better vote choice, i''ll switch. It's just I don't see one yet, but of the scummiest players out here toDay so far: (Dnoo, Me, Mad, and You getting the most votes so far), I'm gonna go with You, because I'm the least sure about you, and therefore you are also the least likely to currently hurt the town by dieing. (Cult<Scum<Lurkers/Inactive Scum<Inactive Townies<Townie<Minor Power Role Townie<Mason<Power Role<Confirmed Townie)
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
What's this hand tipping? I'm saying I believe them. How does that tip my hand? Or am I misunderstanding the phrase?
The claims that dnooman's alignment and win condition are the same as yours. With so many people having already claimed vanilla townie this way, I didn't expect you to also paint a giant target on your back. If these claims are true, then the scum have a reduced pool of people from which they can guess power roles. If these claims are false, then the scum can leverage bandwagons by bandying their townie cred.
Color me confused. Those of us who are really pro-Town or Crew ALL have giant targets on our back anyway. I don't see how I'm helping scum any more beyond what they already know. They know who is of their own and who is not. Therefore Town is already targeted. Am I missing something here?
Let me clarify if I can without shooting myself in the foot if that is even possible now.
I was initially suspicious of Roosh because of his name theory posted in his manifesto back on I think page 10. To summarize:
1) All Townies have names 2) Scum don't have names or have generic names 3) Suspected scum should be forced to name claim 4) Since they don't have names or only generic names they would have to pick a fake name 5) There's a limited number of names in the fire-fly-verse 6) Therefore it's likely that someone else already has that name and will counter-claim 7) If someone counter-claims, you examine both of them 8) If no one counter claims you're assumed to be 'town'
Bolding mine.
This was long ago. I think Roosh on many occasions has said he was misguided. Even I think this is false. I think everyone has a real name from the show. Even the scum. Again, that word is THINK. THINK, draid bead, not know. I think Roosh was/is wrong on those two points.
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Then Roosh name-claimed as Inara and claimed a minor power role and was almost immediately exonerated by some for one of two reasons.
1) He claimed a major character and a minor power role 2) No one counter-claimed
This is where you messed up/made your mistake.
NOBODY pardoned him as far as I can tell. People chose to unvote him FOR NOW, pending new info, but nobody all of said "Yes, yes, he is telling the truth." Not at the time.
Myself, I actually feel now that he really is town. But I speak only for myself and not anyone else. Nobody else I noticed seem to be doing what you're saying.
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This to me is still ASTOUNDING because it is solely based on Roosh's theory that scum have no names or generic names.
I'm pretty sure he's posted a few times since then saying he could be wrong/mistaken/that it was a bad thought/idea....
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There is no basis to believe this.
I don't. I'm pretty sure he said he rethought it too, however I don't know that to be a fact. I think that's where this misunderstanding is coming from.
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On the dnooman/Roosh thing. When he posted his role and stated that his alignment was 'crew' and his win condition was 'All Alliance are dead' I knew he was telling the truth because that's what mine said (although no one will probably believe that now). However when Roosh posted his it was such a confusing mishmash it seemed to me that he was faking it.
I didn't, and here's why: Because he was confused and thus thought the same thing I did. That dnooman (and you if you really are on his team) needed to die WHETHER HE IS GOOD OR BAD simply because he's part Alliance. Knowing what my win condition is...it all of says that. It doesn't specify good or bad. But then, when NAF posted in here clarifying it, I understood it fully. Since Roosh had done/thought the exact same thing, to me it's only possible because he had the exact same wording in his PM. dong ma?
However a number of folks just used the no counter-claim reason for exonerating him.
For the four thousandth time, who in this game has "exonerated" Roosh - ie, declared him pro-town for all time, as opposed to provisionally accepted his role claim in the absence of evidence that it is false.
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This to me is still ASTOUNDING because it is solely based on Roosh's theory that scum have no names or generic names.
No. No it isn't. For me, it's based on a very simple, two premise theory, namely that:
(1) Inara is probably in the game;
and
(2) Inara, specifically, is probably pro-town.
Please note that this says absolutely nothing about what sort of names the scum do or do not have. I believe #1 is overwhelmingly likely to be true and #2 is very likely to be true. Even if one of them is false, though, there is no good reason to lynch Roosh right now. We have NO evidence that his claim is a lie, and plenty of time to assemble evidence like that.
I'm curious why you're not as adamantly opposing MadtheSwine's role claim, which is considerably more problematic (as I noted in my last post).
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So I unvoted him to try to separate the lynch Roosh theme from the "Why are we suddenly buying into this theory" theme.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #816 on Sept 16, 2007, 10:23am »
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I never saw or read that part either at the time. I wasn't talking about the list of players that was going to be IN the game. That line that you underlined is talking about how I believe that the good characters (in the series) are good in the game and the bad characters (in the series) are going to be bad in the game.
So what are you on about? It sounds like I'm talking about apples and you oranges.
Sorry about that--I underlined that part and then didn't actually talk about the underlined part until the latter part of the post. In the first part, I was talking about where you said I kept backtracking and correcting myself. I corrected myself because I realized I was wrong.
Also, in the underlined portion, I read "I now thing" as "I know things," which changes the meaning quite a bit. Sorry about that.
After about half a bottle of rum, it finally occurred to me why I have a problem with how the last two pages are developing. It seems to me that what sinjin is saying is that there may be some scum out there that have good names from the show, and people are saying anything from "I don't think that's going on in Roosh's case" (which is quite possibly valid) to "I don't think that's true in any case."
I have a question for those who believe the latter. If you don't think that any people who are good crewmembers on the show are actually scum in this game, why is it that dnooman is an Alliance citizen with a crew win condition? Doesn't that seem to leave open the possibility that the alternative also exists? Again, I'm not saying that it's Roosh--let's divorce this idea from our one claimed fully-crew role. Is sinjin's idea really so crazy that it deserves votes?
Looking back at the history of the voting against sinjin, I see Roosh (understandable), Idle Thoughts, and a third "I'm convinced!" vote by Diomedes. Looks like an attempt to start a bandwagon to me. Vote Diomedes.
Color me confused. Those of us who are really pro-Town or Crew ALL have giant targets on our back anyway. I don't see how I'm helping scum any more beyond what they already know. They know who is of their own and who is not. Therefore Town is already targeted. Am I missing something here?
Yes, it's in the portion you just quoted, but I'll say it again: the scum know who they are, but they don't know who the power roles are. The people claiming vanilla townie truthfully reduce the pool of potential power roles.
You also seem to have missed my second complaint: The people falsely claiming vanilla townie may escape the eye of an investigative role and try to use their unlawfully gained townie cred to leverage bandwagons.
(In other words, it's almost the reverse of the situation in Psycopaths when we first bandied about whether or not the Geniuses should claim and make the scum choose 'twixt trying to kill them or trying to kill one of the unconfirmed town. Also remember how many times capybara said something to the effect of: "Since me and nesta are the only confirmed town, let us throw out some crazy theories from our magic bag, and you guys decide if we're making sense"?)
Re: Day 1 « Reply #818 on Sept 16, 2007, 10:47am »
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Looking back at the history of the voting against sinjin, I see Roosh (understandable), Idle Thoughts, and a third "I'm convinced!" vote by Diomedes
Yes, I was trying to start a bandwagon. I'll admit it. But I wasn't trying to for foul reasons. If we don't get a bandwagon going on someone, we're not going to get the 15 votes necessary to lynch. No matter all the troubles and travails, we're not going to have rock-solid reasons until we get a few days into the game, and have a few people dead, with votes against them, and the power investigative roles (I hope we have them) have looked into their suspects. I don't like sinjin's playing style, and I think she was pushing for a Roosh lynch long after it should have been clear to her that it wasn't the right move. That smells scummy enough to me to feel comfortable helping lynch her.
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It's just that you seem not to say much yet you type a lot. You're very, very helpful though at making sure everyone finds the information they want or need or are asking for. Yes, that's the main reason.
I don't get it. Is this sarcasm? Is there a reason we should be hiding information?
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Yeah, but come on...a semi-MAJOR role? One that would probably be put into the game? One that, if you're lying, someone else probably would have and might counterclaim against? I can see a scummy role claiming someone who is a minorish character, but not someone really big. That's just killing themselves in due time.
You're right. I might, oh, I don't know... claim mason, and maybe get the town to lynch a real mason? <cough> I know, it's a crazy strategy. Never been done before. </cough> Even if the town believes the real mason, for one scum, they get two outed masons early in the game.
Yeah, I know, Idle. I'm being too helpful here. More scumtells from me.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #819 on Sept 16, 2007, 10:49am »
I think it bears repeating that there might not be a mason group, or may be more than one. In either of those two cases Mad would not be counterclaimed. I don't think that he would have been so quick to claim if he were a mason, mostly because he wasn't really that close to being lynched, and secondly because he just put himself out there for scum, any other killing role, or both to kill his ass tonight. If there's a doc, which I'm guessing there is, they couldn't protect a double kill attempt could they?
Also, DrainBead could you include the name of the poster you're quoting, I think it might cut down on confusion (for me at least).
The lurkers are lurking their asses off, and I don't like it. I'd bet that there are one or more scum who are just letting things happen and not saying much at all. Lurkers are bad mmmkay?
OK, I've been thinking about MadtheSwine's role claim for a while, and it's bothering the living daylights out of me. I'm going to try to articulate why, and I'm going to do it quickly because I have to leave here in ten minutes.
I can think of no logical pro-town reason why Mad would claim Mason but refuse to give the actual appellation. If it's true, the fact that he's a "Mason-like role" tells the scum everything they need to know - the actual name of the role is useless to them. But I can think of two anti-town reasons:
1. He's part of a Mason-like group, all right, in which all the players know one another - but it's a group with a name like "The Reavers" or "The Blue Hands" or something like that, and they are their own anti-town faction. If he name-claimed in such a case, we'd surely be more suspicious of him and might lynch him just to find out.
2. He's scum, and false claiming. Shortly after the claim, dnooman said something that caught my eye - that he hoped that there weren't more than one Mason group. I think that's on a lot of our minds. Since the game is totally closed, we know there might be more than one Mason group. Whoever the "real" Masons are, even if they know Mad is not one of them, they wouldn't counterclaim now because, hey, maybe he's part of a different group of Masons. So it's a perfect cover - a person false claiming "Mason" but not giving the name is counting on the real Masons thinking he might be part of a second group.
That's exactly what I was getting at with my post immediately after his claim, except now I realize that since I was so brief and didn't call out the logic as you have done, folks might not realize that I said much of anything.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
Re: Day 1 « Reply #821 on Sept 16, 2007, 11:24am »
* I still would like to hear more from MadTheSwine*
Either a name or ya know... a name for the Mason group. Because in this game i REFUSE to believe anyone has just a role of "town"/"Mason"/"Doctor" they've gotta have a name and some flavor.
Now if the name would give AWAY his fellow masons in teh future (like maybe there is an "Order of the Bob's, and all people whose names are Bob are in the Mason group), then yes, I could see where saying "my name is Bob" is bad for him to do....
But right now, what i worry is that there are NO MASONS in the game. But I will not lynch a possible pro-town role. Not on the first freaking Day.
So we must wait to hear more from the Kooky Piggy.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Haven't you noticed how you have cluttered up the board? Haven't you noticed that your posts are pretty much white noise (promises of ideas to come, when they come, pretty much unstructured information, and when under attack screams and point by point deconstructions of what the other one said)?
(snip) Yeah. Since then I've said I'll cut back. AND I HAVE. So why bring up old crap? I've said i'll change, and I have been doing so. If you're going to bring up old ideas that don't help out the town any, then well.... :shrug: I can't help you. But take a look since My claim. I've DEF. cut back. So if you want to lynch me for learning from my mistakes, then go ahead. (snip)
... Why do I bring up old crap? Obviously because I don't think you have cut back enough!
Seriously: you have 225 posts! Idle Thoughts who, in my book, would be a notorious machine-gun like poster has about half of your posts!
And that's not even counting the words you use!
An idea for you:
1. Post once a page. At most. For at least the rest of this Day 2. Whenever you post, preview (didn't Kat ask you to do that already?) 3. If, on preview, your post is longer than 10 lines, mull it over. Edit it. Learn to be concise!
Sheesh. I don't know if you're scum, but you're certainly helping them with your posting habits.
M3 - Monk- Won the game (cast the winning vote) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win) Crazyville - Doctor- Alive at the end (win) Cult of Sekham - Crusader - Killed by Cult... after I killed a Monk(loss--didn't kill at least one Unbeliever/Cult...because I'm stupid)/Vanilla townie (win). Firefly - In space no one can hear you role-claim!
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #823 on Sept 16, 2007, 11:48am »
MadTheSwine's role claim smells like a sty to me. I know Mad is a Pig of Few Words...but jeezum. I think I'm going to need a little more than he oinked. He was in no particular danger with only 5 or 6 votes against him. I'm going to provisionally
vote Madthe Swine,
and hope for more information before the Day's end.
Sinjin intimated in one of her posts that she had some sort of small power. I'm sorry, I don't remember the post number...I'll try to go back and find it. (I'm not posting from my notes right now.) I'm going to treat this as a psuedo-role-claim for now because I had her listed in my probably town/crew column.
This may be an unpopular idea, but I am toying with the idea of voting for tragic to either get her to post or to lynch a lurker. I know that I may be on some people's list of lurkers, but I try to only post to the thread when I have something to say. Generally I don't have a lot to say on Day One, but pick up steam as the game goes on. And with 28 pages to read, I didn't think posting just to have my name show up would be helpful in any way. I mean, it's still only Day One and we have almost a full 1/4 of the number of posts as BlaM's ENTIRE GAME. Can we try not to do this Tomorrow?
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #824 on Sept 16, 2007, 1:04pm »
Mad...
If you don't give me some reasons not to vote for you, that is the direction I'm leaning. There just isn't enough to your claim (or the rest of your posts) to assuage my paranoia, even a little.
Story & Mtg: I'd like to hear some more from you both also, without setting fire to any leftover powder kegs of emotion, please.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
This applies mostly to my fellow first-time players here who aren't speaking up, but we don't really know if those players who aren't posting much at all are doing so out of a lurker strategy, or if they're just not as interested/invested in playing. I don't want to risk accidently lynching Mal because he was assigned to tragic, for instance, just because there wasn't any posting being done. A replacement player might be able to come in (to this mess!) and do better things with their role.
Can we wait until at least Day Two before hanging new lurkers for lurkdom's sake?
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #826 on Sept 16, 2007, 1:22pm »
My apologies, but now I can't find the post I was referring to in my last post above this one. If someone else saw it and it is not a figment of my imagination, please let me know. Otherwise I will continue the spiral towards certain insanity. So scratch my above comments about sinjin pending further review.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
hockeymonkey Silly orange hat-wearer member is online
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #827 on Sept 16, 2007, 1:30pm »
Doh, forgot to mention...while I was looking for that post, I found another interesting one.
Post 737 by sinjin says that she has a bad guy name in the FF-verse, but is a good guy in the NAFKat-verse. It made me raise an eyebrow. It does lend some credence to her adamant protest of Roosh's Big Plan v.1.0, but then again, it doesn't line up with popular wisdom on the subject.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
Also, in the underlined portion, I read "I now thing" as "I know things," which changes the meaning quite a bit. Sorry about that.
It's okay.
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I have a question for those who believe the latter. If you don't think that any people who are good crewmembers on the show are actually scum in this game, why is it that dnooman is an Alliance citizen with a crew win condition? Doesn't that seem to leave open the possibility that the alternative also exists?
Well, again, I know nothing about the show other than what I've heard from the fans in here and what I've read with some of the roles on wiki, but I'd wager to say that the Alliance Town is sort of a neutral role, actually, and not a "good" one over all. Sort of like the Non-believers in Mafia V.
Dotchan:
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Yes, it's in the portion you just quoted, but I'll say it again: the scum know who they are, but they don't know who the power roles are. The people claiming vanilla townie truthfully reduce the pool of potential power roles.
And who is doing/has done that so far?
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You also seem to have missed my second complaint: The people falsely claiming vanilla townie may escape the eye of an investigative role and try to use their unlawfully gained townie cred to leverage bandwagons.
I haven't seen anyone claim vanilla townie yet, so what are you talking about?
Dio:
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I don't get it. Is this sarcasm? Is there a reason we should be hiding information?
That's not what I'm talking about. I mean, your posts are full of typing but you seem to say very little. I don't know how else I can say it if you still don't understand it (or are deliberatly not "getting it").
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Yeah, but come on...a semi-MAJOR role? One that would probably be put into the game? One that, if you're lying, someone else probably would have and might counterclaim against? I can see a scummy role claiming someone who is a minorish character, but not someone really big. That's just killing themselves in due time.
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You're right. I might, oh, I don't know... claim mason, and maybe get the town to lynch a real mason? <cough> I know, it's a crazy strategy. Never been done before. </cough> Even if the town believes the real mason, for one scum, they get two outed masons early in the game.
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Where do you get that logic from? And what does it have to do with the quote you were replying to?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are not, then it'd be wise to claim, I think. Because either A: That means one of you is lying or B: That means there could possibly be two Mason groups at hand here, although if that is the case I would find it VERY HARD to believe they were both pro-town. So either way, it helps and it's still one for one. What's this two for one you're talking about?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are too, then everything is well and good and you're in no trouble until your head is on the chopping block (or if you think it's worth it to come forward and confirm your buddy if his or her head is on the chopping block anyway, even after they claimed).
My apologies, but now I can't find the post I was referring to in my last post above this one. If someone else saw it and it is not a figment of my imagination, please let me know. Otherwise I will continue the spiral towards certain insanity. So scratch my above comments about sinjin pending further review.
I don't remember any small power that sinjin said she had...
c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his comeout are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. Yeah so do I, very minor, but I’m from a town and I am still crew. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.
Italics mine. And it is something that's so quick, you miss if you blink.
In that case, unvote sinjin, but a very pointy FoS remains, because she's still not 100% confirmed in my eyes.
c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his comeout are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. Yeah so do I, very minor, but I’m from a town and I am still crew. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.
Italics mine. And it is something that's so quick, you miss if you blink.
In that case, unvote sinjin, but a very pointy FoS remains, because she's still not 100% confirmed in my eyes.
Good eye.
If this continues though, there's going to be, I fear:
A. All roles exposed before Day one is over. Because scum will probably just move from person to person (this Day) and build the votes up on them so they're forced to claim and then they get to play with a list of all known players and roles they have.
B. Combined with or without the above, an incomplete number of needed votes for someone by Day's end and thus no lynch.
C. People scurrying all around at the last minute to vote and thus all piling on top of someone in the 11th hour just so there's a lynch (with the scum's help, of course) and having that be a power role that gets it since there's no time left for everyone to unvote and vote/agree on another person.
Again, the majority votes or no lynch rule is flawed a little, I feel. It doesn't make it a little harder. It makes it a lot harder. Dang near impossible.
Where do you get that logic from? And what does it have to do with the quote you were replying to?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are not, then it'd be wise to claim, I think. Because either A: That means one of you is lying or B: That means there could possibly be two Mason groups at hand here, although if that is the case I would find it VERY HARD to believe they were both pro-town. So either way, it helps and it's still one for one. What's this two for one you're talking about?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are too, then everything is well and good and you're in no trouble until your head is on the chopping block (or if you think it's worth it to come forward and confirm your buddy if his or her head is on the chopping block anyway, even after they claimed).
I was referring to MtS's mason claim. Because this is a closed set-up game, we don't know for sure if there even are any masons, or if there are multiple masons. I'm very slightly more suspicious of his claim than of Roosh's or dnooman's, that's all.
Here's my mental breakdown of a false mason claim:
Scum A decides he's getting too many votes. He doesn't know what to do, and doesn't want to get his butt lynched on day one. He claims mason. Now, Mason B counterclaims. Town looks back and forth 'twixt the two masons, and reads through (per this game) 18 pages of analysis 'twixt the two putative masons and everyoen else about posting style, scum-factor, actions from Mafia games that ended six months ago and the usage of semi-colons in determining which is the real mason. Should the town wind up pointing to Mason B, then Mason C has to step in at the eleventh hour to rescue him. We kill one mobster, and the mob finds out 2/3 of the Mason cohort in swift order. Yeah, it's a worse case scenario. And statistics might show that it's still in the town's favor. But it's possible, depending on how many mafia there are, that it's a reasonable trade, given the power of masons as 'confirmed townies' at end-game.
I have half a mind to take my vote off sinjin, but I won't just yet. She really hasn't done a role-claim. There's nothing in her post that might lead to counterclaiming like Roosh or Mad, and she hasn't given any sort of proof, the way dnooman's confusion over his own PM did. I'd like at the very least a name before I considered her absolved. But she won't give the name, because it's a scum name. And who has scum names? Yeah, scum.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 140 Location: The Warner Water Tower Karma: 3 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #834 on Sept 16, 2007, 2:07pm »
Idle, re: The ones who claimed vanilla townie are the ones who piped up saying: "Ooh! Dnooman has the same role and win condition as me!"
Or at least that's how I'm interpreting their statements.
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Well, again, I know nothing about the show other than what I've heard from the fans in here and what I've read with some of the roles on wiki, but I'd wager to say that the Alliance Town is sort of a neutral role, actually, and not a "good" one over all. Sort of like the Non-believers in Mafia V.
*bzzt* Wrong! Read dnooman's claim again. His alignment is Crew. C-r-e-w. Meaning Crew is most likely what the town are called in this game. His character just happens to be a citizen of the Alliance.
Your seeming inability to understand what the rest of us is trying to say is starting to look more and more suspicious.
Where do you get that logic from? And what does it have to do with the quote you were replying to?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are not, then it'd be wise to claim, I think. Because either A: That means one of you is lying or B: That means there could possibly be two Mason groups at hand here, although if that is the case I would find it VERY HARD to believe they were both pro-town. So either way, it helps and it's still one for one. What's this two for one you're talking about?
If someone claims mason and you are a mason and know they are too, then everything is well and good and you're in no trouble until your head is on the chopping block (or if you think it's worth it to come forward and confirm your buddy if his or her head is on the chopping block anyway, even after they claimed).
I was referring to MtS's mason claim. Because this is a closed set-up game, we don't know for sure if there even are any masons, or if there are multiple masons. I'm very slightly more suspicious of his claim than of Roosh's or dnooman's, that's all.
That's fine and good. I don't care.
My main point was just:
Me: Quote:
Yeah, but come on...a semi-MAJOR role? One that would probably be put into the game? One that, if you're lying, someone else probably would have and might counterclaim against?
I can see a scummy role claiming someone who is a minorish character, but not someone really big. That's just killing themselves in due time.
And that was in regards to Roosh. I don't know why you brought up Mad the possible Mason. I dunno what to think there either, although like I said, if someone else were Mason and knew he wasn't one of them, I'd think trading tit for tat, right NOW, before we're down to just ONE Mason left who wouldn't have any support, would be good. Even if nobody knows who to believe. Because it would, at least, show someone was lying or that there was the possibility of being two groups.
Idle, re: The ones who claimed vanilla townie are the ones who piped up saying: "Ooh! Dnooman has the same role and win condition as me!"
Or at least that's how I'm interpreting their statements.
How/why so?
I saw three people who did that. Myself, Roosh and sinjin. If there were others, let me know.
Now Roosh, if he's to believed (and I do) came out and I WOULD consider him a power role (that possible Night kill he against his attacker). However I can understand him coming OUT with his full role since he was the one with the most votes.
sinjin only said she was on the same team as dnooman. Therefore I wouldn't say she was vanilla town. I'd say she'd have to be ALLIANCE town. And secondly, she did mention a "minor" power role but who knows what the extent of it is? IF she IS really town, I don't see how mentioning that would make scum more apt to kill her. For all they know her minor power could be like Roosh's (taking down someone with her) or even worse. So what good does that do scum? What does that tell them? Nothing much as far as I can tell.
And me, I never said anything one way or another. I just said my win conditions read the same as Roosh and dnooman. As far as I know ALL TRUE TOWN (whether power role or or vanilla town) would have the same win condition. So again, I fail to see how this would help scum out?
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*bzzt* Wrong! Read dnooman's claim again. His alignment is Crew. C-r-e-w. Meaning Crew is most likely what the town are called in this game. His character just happens to be a citizen of the Alliance.
Unvote sinjin Vote zuma/dotchan
That is REALLY telling right there. Because from that quote you have just shown me that you can neither be on MY team or Dnooman's team.
And that was in regards to Roosh. I don't know why you brought up Mad the possible Mason.
gorram! This entire back and forth began with you responding to something -I- said, chief, way back at post 802. If you don't want to hear me explain myself, don't try and tease gos se out of me.
Man, never before have I had to go back and check and reread my PM so many times in a game.
dotchan, please explain. From what you just said, I can only surmise (based on what I've heard from dnooman and Roosh--both of whom I believe for now--and what my own PM says) that you are either not of my team or you are confused as to the difference 'twixt crew and town in this game or I am confused as to the difference 'twixt crew and town in this game...or both. But just going off of what has happened and known my own alignment, I'd have to lean more towards it being you are the one confused.
I think you're thinking that crew = vanilla town only.
What I think is that crew = all townies, all town power roles, all vanilla townies, just all townies total.
This is why I'm confused over why you would think that outing our conditions to scum would give anything away.
And since you still apparently think that even though from what has happened in here and what my PM says it shouldn't/wouldn't do that at all, I can only assume your win conditions and alignment are different from mine (and, consequently, dnooman's, Roosh's and sinjins (if she's to be believed))