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Sept 21, 2007, 12:21am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #360 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:10am »
[Quote]

I have a general question for the dnooman voters, as I'm still not fully comfortable with the switch I just made. Well, I guess really anyone can answer it, but...

It's fairly obvious that dnooman has a different win condition than most of us, one that is more "every man for himself." Can we think of a scenario in which leaving dnooman alive helps us? I'm thinking of the BLAM scenario in...what was that, M2 where he was the Vig, and was essentially taking the town's direction? Mind you, most of the time the town picked wrong, but...ah, fuck it. It's a bad idea to go down this road--I'm starting to try to guess what dnooman's role might be and how to utilize it in our favor, and there's really no point in doing that. I'm going to post this anyway, though, just to see what people think about it.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #361 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:19am »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 10:10am, drainbead wrote:
I have a general question for the dnooman voters, as I'm still not fully comfortable with the switch I just made. Well, I guess really anyone can answer it, but...

It's fairly obvious that dnooman has a different win condition than most of us, one that is more "every man for himself." Can we think of a scenario in which leaving dnooman alive helps us? I'm thinking of the BLAM scenario in...what was that, M2 where he was the Vig, and was essentially taking the town's direction? Mind you, most of the time the town picked wrong, but...ah, fuck it. It's a bad idea to go down this road--I'm starting to try to guess what dnooman's role might be and how to utilize it in our favor, and there's really no point in doing that. I'm going to post this anyway, though, just to see what people think about it.


I can think of one, but then I'm a fan. I don't want to say anymore at this time.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #362 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:23am »
[Quote]

I guess that's where it helps having people who actually know FF, since I know exactly dick-all about the storyline. Sometimes I feel like that puts me even more in the dark.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #363 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am »
[Quote]

A couple of things have been bothering me about Roosh and I've been going back and forth about whether he's scum or stupid. First his claim to not know anything about some of the major characters from Firefly even though his whole plan rests on knowing the firefly characters. And two his certainty that the scum got a different type of role assignment than the crew did. So I went back and reread THE post. It’s kind of hard to do with all the underlining but I slogged thru the whole thing again.

From the Roosh manifesto

<snip>

Quote:
Everyone has been PM'ed a Role. Townie, or whatever else, but our townies are NOT just townies. In a theme game, they get something extra. They HAVE A NAME.
This why: If you are a fan of FireFly, you probably know who your person is. And you probably know what alignment they were, on the show. So basically, Everyone knows one thing about this game. Who THEY are. And that's the key to the town WINNING this game.
Because SCUM didn't realize that until I just SAID it. One reason I didn't want to reveal this info.

<snip>

How can you possibly know what scum don't know unless you're scum and you got an un-named scum role. [note he mentions the un-named scum role in a later post as well, I can look it up if you want] Why would you make that leap? There are plenty of bad guys with names to go around. So, are you hand of blue one or two, the operative or the interviewer? Hmmm that’s four scum possibilities right there and maybe a reaver and a couple of alliance villains as mentioned in the next snippet.



Quote:
Point 2: So what does this mean for the GAME?

It means this: Fanatics, can you think of at least 20 people from the FF series that are famous enough to be in this game? Good/Bad/Neutral? Because if you can think it, they probably ARE in here. That's the key thing. We are each a Role. We are each a single person in the FF universe. Scum i'm not sure. Maybe there are villains in this so called "alliance", or maybe they're just "reavers" or some generic name. If so, then they just got caught with their pants down.

<snip>

I've only seen the movie, but i can still think of at least 10 people to be included in the game.


And one of them is not Simon or the Operative who you cluelessly later on call the Objective even after several people have called him the Operative? He was a major bad guy in the movie. Trying a little too hard to not know the firefly-verse?

<snip>


Quote:

Because I've only seen one episode of Firefly.


Forgot your previous statement that you’d only seen the movie?

<snip>


Quote:
Point #3: Stupid Bob: "So wait. Why don't we all just MASS CLAIM?"

Because Now, the scum know this too. And they'll start knowing where to look. If like "Doctor Spock" from the series (sorry, i made it up, i dunno if there is a healer in the FF series, or a cop figure, or a vigilante, but the fans prolly do, thats why i hope some of them are on our side). But if Dr. Spock claims he's "Spock", someone who's a fan of the show and NOT Pro-Town will ALSO jsut as easily be able to deduce WHO that person is. And they'll die during the night.

<snip>

1. We find the 2-3 most suspicious looking people.

<snip>

We take our 2-3 people, and we FORCE them to claim. Not their roles or anything like that. Instead, we want only 1 thing from them:
Their Names.


<snip>

And given what you said in the Stupid Bob post above about deducing powers from names, you still want to FORCE people to name-claim?????

And finally


Quote:

BlasterMaster, I'd like a RoleClaim out of you. Because you seem the most suspicious to me all day about wanting my info.


So we abandon the 2 or 3 town suspects and demand a role claim based on your one vote?

<snip>


Quote:
Step 7: LYNCH ALL LIARS. AKA: Lynch the Scummiest.


I do agree with this. Sorry about the length, but I didn't want to vote without my reasons. I promise not to post again for a long time. (famous last words, hehehe)

unvote: zuma

vote: Roosh
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #364 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:30am »
[Quote]

Mmkay, I'm back. whee. more votes. =(
I'll address some issues.
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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #365 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:33am »
[Quote]

sinjin, that was some gorram fine analysis. I admit to buying into Roosh's idea, and stuck with it (at least in theory) even as others poked holes in it. But you convinced me -- Roosh is our best bet (well, that, or you've extremely clever scum...but for now, we go with the former).

Vote Roosh.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #366 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:36am »
[Quote]

I've re-read the thread, and will

unvote: Idle Thoughts
vote: dnooman

based on his "every man for himself" question regarding win conditions. My win condition is clear, and I too suspect his might not be the same as mine.

My original plan for day 1 was to eventually put a final vote on someone trying to lay low, as the noisy townies seem to get lynched on day one all the time. If not for what looks to be a slip by dnooman, I'd be voting for whatthefrack today.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #367 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:42am »
[Quote]

Mercy, people. Quit being so constructive and loquacious.

I'm only half way through my gorram crawl of Kyrie in M5, and I still have Queuing to do. EOC (Elbow of Crankiness) at all y'all.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #368 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:42am »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 8:13am, drainbead wrote:

Things that make me think Roosh is scum:
--Asking BLAM to roleclaim. Why on earth? BLAM has exactly ONE vote on him, and that's from Roosh. Why would he need to roleclaim? Who would that possibly benefit at this point in the game, with the voting playing out the way he is? Honestly, I could have thrown out his entire Bad Idea Post as just another Bad Idea Post had that not been at the end of it.

-Okay. I shouldn't have said "RoleClaim" because a few people have jumped on this. What I'm basically trying to say is this:
When I vote for a person IN THIS GAME I will be voting for them because I find them quite suspicious and I want them to RoleClaim. However, what does that really mean?
--It's just the way I'm gonna post the fact that I'm voting for someone.

Obviously If he roleclaimed JUST because of me, that'd be stupid, and that was not my intention. At that point, I was quite excited, and I did say "RoleClaim!" but what I should have just said is "I think you're suspicious! I Vote for You! And left it at that, with the "Role claim when you've got lots of votes on you!" implied rather than explicitly stated.

So yeah. That's my bad.
I can see I'm getting lots of votes, I view each of them as not only a vote against me, but exactly the same thing that I just did to BM- Each of those votes is pretty much stating the same thing "I think you're suspicious, I want a role claim out of you" Though I think Zeriel's the only one to explicitly say that, I am Assuming the rest of you are saying that as well. Because it goes without saying. Which is what I should have done. :-/ Not said it.


Sept 13, 2007, 8:13am, drainbead wrote:

--He makes way too many assumptions that someone who has the limited info of a townie would not have. For example, on page 9, he says "We all have names. Names from the show." Do we? I don't know. I know what *I* have, and nothing else. That's a pretty bold assumption to make, I think, and it makes me think that during the Night, he may have discussed roles with some other players elsewhere, if you know what I mean. Maybe I've missed something where it was mentioned that we all have names from the show, and if I have, please let me know. Until then, I'm assuming nothing, and it strikes me as odd that Roosh is making an assumption that huge, and basing his entire theory of how the game should go off of that assumption. Roosh seems to assume a lot, to the point where I think he's not assuming, he knows. And at this point, anyone who seems to know anything is met with my suspicion.


Yes. I realize now I made a lot of assumptions.
That's why I've withdrawn my ideas, and I want to save them for when the town has more information, because (after these helpful discussions), I've seen the errors in alot of my assumptions.

But i've garned a bunch of votes now it seems from people who are just looking at the initial ideas, and then still just voting for me, rather than seeing that "okay, he realizes he humped up, and he's withdrawing the idea"
It's like yeah, I have this one bad idea.
I changed my views a little bit, and I admitted it has flaws.
But you guys are just going back to the fact that the IDEA was created to begin with, and just using that as an indication of scumminess.

((Side point-- My Views on Dnooman. I found him to be initially scummy, because of his night post which indicated that he might have a diff. win condition. But as I thought about it, I realized: this doesn't mean he's not town. I don't think Dnoo IS a Townie. But I think he's got his own win condition. Whether its pro-town or Anti-town, I wasn't sure. That's why I pointed it out, and left it there to see what he would say (and he did respond).
Currently, I'm wavering on what I think Dnoo is.
He's probably either maybe a nontraditional role (ie: Culty/recruity type of fellow, or maybe someone with a lone win condition?) But i really am unsure. That's why I held off on the vote)

As for the BlasterMaster Vote:
well, I was upset.
I didn't like the way he attacked my ideas rather than give them a chance, and I found that immediately suspicious. the other people were at least helpful in explaining why my ideas were flawed, his seemed just filled with hyperbole, ad hominem attacks, and emotional appeals to twist my character. That's why I disliked it, and was happy to keep my vote on him.

However, he has pointed out that he wasn't trying to be so hurtful/ he was trying to be more sarcastic. And yes, his thoughts weren't really helpful to me, but I admit, I could have had tunnel vision on him.

So:
Unvote BlasterMaster
for now.


Zerial. I still don't like your solo post/vote against me though.

Maybe more to come.




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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #369 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:43am »
[Quote]

I can tell you who to vote for in M5, cookies, if you want some help :)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #370 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:48am »
[Quote]

The Just-Cuz-I-Feel-Like-It Vote Count:

dnooman (4): FCoD, Greedy Smurf, hockey monkey, zuma
Idle Thoughts (1): Pygmy Rugger
Roosh (7): Blaster Master, storyteller, zeriel, dnooman, drainbead, sinjin, Hal Briston
whatthefrak (1): Diomedes
zuma (1): Idle Thoughts
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #371 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:51am »
[Quote]

And I just noticed that dnooman has posted even less than wtf. All the more reason to be comfortable voting for him.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #372 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:53am »
[Quote]

Just a few thoughts...

i think the "I have a secret" posts are more a town tell than a scum tell.

This post really bothers me






Sept 12, 2007, 12:06am, storyteller0910 wrote:

[quote author=gr=game thread=1189466937 post=1189488526][font=Arial]
[

In Asylum Lane, MadtheSwine and I picked up on what we saw as suspicious behavior out of drainbead and eventually lead a wagon to lynch her. drainbead turned out to be scum.



In Asylum Lane storyteller did not give me any credit at all,other than calling my original HOF frivilous or trivial,(I don't remember exactly how he worded it) and seemed to take all the credit himself.I wonder why he gives me credit now.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #373 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:54am »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am, sinjin wrote:

How can you possibly know what scum don't know unless you're scum and you got an un-named scum role.
[note he mentions the un-named scum role in a later post as well, I can look it up if you want] Why would you make that leap? There are plenty of bad guys with names to go around. So, are you hand of blue one or two, the operative or the interviewer? Hmmm that’s four scum possibilities right there and maybe a reaver and a couple of alliance villains as mentioned in the next snippet.

Well, I assumed that scum got a blank role. Because that's what I had seen on most of the previous Mafia scum games I'd read. (that's what pretty much caused my ideas to be brought forth-- I love reading the Mafia Theme Games they have over there, and these are some of the standard rules that they implement to find scum- with the roleclaims and paying attention to them)
So I wanted to bring them over here.

But yes, I made alot of assumptions. I realize that. The underlined part strikes me though I like how you assume though that because I assumed, I must be scum. That's just not right. Illogical even. Maybe... oh i dunno. I actually assumed something. Just because some people are heavily logic based, doesn't mean others aren't allowed to have jumps in ideas and such.


Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am, sinjin wrote:

And one of them is not Simon or the Operative who you cluelessly later on call the Objective even after several people have called him the Operative? He was a major bad guy in the movie. Trying a little too hard to not know the firefly-verse?

At this point, this is really grasping at straws. I get it, you're voting for me. But because i said Operative vs. Objective?!?!

I've seen the movie. I remember a chick who fought alot, and Reavers. That's about it. I didn't care much for the movie (and i didn't know that the operative/objective was in the movie even).

But alright, let's ASSUME that I was faking my ignorance. ::)




Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am, sinjin wrote:

Forgot your previous statement that you’d only seen the movie?

Or I feel it's something so small and pointless that it didn't really need mentioning.
But fine, you don't believe me that I've only seen the movie, and one episode (which coincidentally atarus showed me in college. I got to see the ending of the episode with that guy in it. Don't believe me, fine. Ask him instead. But i think its a silly thing to point out.


Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am, sinjin wrote:

So we abandon the 2 or 3 town suspects and demand a role claim based on your one vote?

Erm. No.
I will admit, i badly worded this. I should have just voted for the guy, and said nothing extra. But : shrug: I was excited. If you're assuming that I'm the one person in the game EVERYONE should listen to. Well, that's just another assumption you can have, but apparently, it's not good to assume things. I learned that.



Sept 13, 2007, 10:27am, sinjin wrote:


Quote:
Step 7: LYNCH ALL LIARS. AKA: Lynch the Scummiest.


I do agree with this. Sorry about the length, but I didn't want to vote without my reasons. I promise not to post again for a long time. (famous last words, hehehe)


Man....
You seem excited to be lynching me too.
Just like I was for BlaM. ::)
I do agree with lynch all liars though. But I'm not lying. I was assuming, and I've seen the errors for it. I let it go a few pages back. You're still using it to attack me.
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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

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Some call me the gangster of Love....
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #374 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:58am »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 8:18am, Hal Briston wrote:

Of course, Roosh would know that that's a bad play, so he wouldn't do it, unless of course...and that's roughly the time I wind up spilling wine all over the place.


Don't Assume the best of me, Hal. I wouldn't think it's unnecessarily a bad play at all. It just depends on the role.
8-)

Then, again, looks like you voted for me. Whee. =(


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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah...
Some call me the gangster of Love....
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #375 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:00pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 5:19am, drainbead wrote:
Could we please get a vote count?

Okay. I'm bored at work and it's time to start breaking down what's going on here. This is going to be a bit unorganized, as I'm probably going to get interrupted a few times while I'm working on it, but...here goes.

First off, we have the lurkers. I'm going through the player list and putting an X next to every player's name when I see a post in the thread. Right now I'm not even reading the thread, just seeing how much noise people are making. And my results are...


Quote:
atarus 11
BlasterMaster (aka spaceman spiff) 17
CaerieD 5
Captain Klutz 4
CatinaSuit 21
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 19
DiggitCamera 4
Diomedes 11
Dnooman 2
drain bead 10
FlyingCowofDoom 13
Greedy Smurf 7
Hal Briston 2
Hockey Monkey 3
Idle Thoughts 24
Mad the Swine 3
mhaye 4
mtgman 3
panamajack 7
Pygmy Rugger 22
Roosh 49
sinjin 16
Storyteller 19
tragic 0
whatthefrak 4
Yattara 2
zeriel 2
zuma 18


I'm hoping my counting errors were at a minimum, but here we go. The results tell me two things. First, I'm relatively suspicious of anyone with fewer than five posts, and I want the mods to prod tragic, who has yet to post.. Remember, the town benefits when we all speak up and share our ideas. The scum has information but not numbers, we have numbers but not information. By talking, we get more info out there.

But then there's the flip side of that coin, and that's when someone totally dominates the conversation, like Roosh has been doing. I know a lot of it has been defending his ideas, but he's coming across as very scummy to me. First the "I have a secret" type of attitude, which I loathe, and then the huge amounts of noise and thread clutter. Hell, there were times when Roosh made four or five posts IN A ROW. It makes me think of Blaster Master and his strategy from last game, which was to make a lot of general posts about game theory and not much about the players at first, just to get people started talking, and in the hopes that if he made a lot of noise, he'd seem very townie. What Roosh is doing seems like a somewhat more unsophisticated version of that. I know that Roosh tends to do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting from the last game, so a lot of this may be his posting style, but it seems different somehow this time around, and I can't quite put my finger on why. I guess this leads me to point a big fat FOS Roosh. I'm not willing to change my vote just yet, seeing as what I'm going on currently is based on more than just "he talks a whole lot and doesn't say much of anything useful," but if we get toward the end of the Day and need a majority and Roosh is ahead, I would certainly consider a vote change.

...to be continued after I read what's been posted since I started this thing 45 minutes ago...


This post is also of concern.

It is the second day In Day1 and you are already hunting lurkers?

Seems a bit witch hunty to me.

I will and HOS drain bead and vote storyteller
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #376 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:01pm »
[Quote]

HOS Ta ma de...not HOF
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #377 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:01pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:00pm, Mad The Swine wrote:

I will and HOS drain bead and vote storyteller


Why Storyteller? Is it because of something he did in the LAST game?
???
Explain pwease.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #378 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:06pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:01pm, Roosh wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 12:00pm, Mad The Swine wrote:

I will and HOS drain bead and vote storyteller


Why Storyteller? Is it because of something he did in the LAST game?
???
Explain pwease.


Yes it is.

I think I explained it.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #379 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:06pm »
[Quote]

Actually it's the third day of day 1, albeit the game is now 48 horus old. I don't think it's inappropriate to call out the lurkers at this point.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #380 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:07pm »
[Quote]

Okay, at this point I'm feeling more of a scumvibe from dnooman than anyone else, but dnooman has posted so little. I've gone back over the whole thread and there's so very little to go on here. I haven't posted very much myself, but geez. Even I've offered more at this point and I'm horrible on the first Day. It's possible we're looking at somebody with a pro-crew power role who's trying to be cautious, but I don't have the feeling that that's the case.

At this point, I suppose I'm going to give it a little while longer and poke about a bit more and see if dnooman has anymore to say before I actually cast my vote.

I am a bit suspicious of drainbead at this point, though. 'twixt the way she drew extra attention to her vote switch and her statement of being uncomfortable with her vote switch after making it, it just struck me as a "plausible deniability" gambit for later.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #381 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:13pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 11:53am, Mad The Swine wrote:
Just a few thoughts...

i think the "I have a secret" posts are more a town tell than a scum tell.

This post really bothers me






Sept 12, 2007, 12:06am, storyteller0910 wrote:

[quote author=gr=game thread=1189466937 post=1189488526][font=Arial]
[

In Asylum Lane, MadtheSwine and I picked up on what we saw as suspicious behavior out of drainbead and eventually lead a wagon to lynch her. drainbead turned out to be scum.



In Asylum Lane storyteller did not give me any credit at all,other than calling my original HOF frivilous or trivial,(I don't remember exactly how he worded it) and seemed to take all the credit himself.I wonder why he gives me credit now.


Point of order: MadtheSwine is lying about this aspect of my behavior in Asylum Lane. I could demonstrate this. However, it would involve quoting posts from another game, which is so meta it's almost painful and is probably against the spirit of the game. On the other hand, the fact that Mad is lying in a forced effort to get some kind of naescent suspicion pointed in my direction seems extremely relevant. Hm. How about this:

Mad, your characterization is both irrelevant - as it relates to my actions in a totally separate game - and false - as in that previous game I explicitly noted in my first post about drain that I was agreeing with you. I never called your HoS on drain frivolous or trivial or anything of the sort, and I'm pretty sure I said, in that first drain-related post, that I thought you had "a good point." Later in the game, you even used the fact that I was agreeing with you as evidence of my purported scumminess.

So you're lying - I mean, just flat out lying - and you're creating a situation where in order to ascertain whether or not you're lying, players would have to research another game. This is not, I hardly need to say, a pro-town approach.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #382 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:19pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:06pm, Mad The Swine wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 12:01pm, Roosh wrote:


Why Storyteller? Is it because of something he did in the LAST game?
???
Explain pwease.


Yes it is.

I think I explained it.


Well, you know what, if I'm going to get votes on this basis, then I am going to bring in the actual evidence:

Asylum Lane, Day One, Page 5:

<in response to a post by Mad arguing that drain was trying to get him killed because he was an easy target>


Quote:

You know, I hit "reply" to this intending to critique this argument, and then realized as I tried to write the post that the problem is it's actually a pretty good point. I mean - no offense, here, Mad - our porcine pal has developed a bit of a reputation for rather erratic behavior. Even though he's only been scum once, he seems to be one of those players who everyone defaults to suspecting.

So say you're scum, and playing with a new group for the first time. Have to say something, right? Well, why not start out by being the first to express misgivings about someone who you can reasonably predict will eventually give everyonemisgivings? It's sort of like complaining about Autolycus' lack of participation in previous games - it's a safe way to contribute, even substantively, without sticking your neck out. Particularly when you do it so quietly - not with a vote, not even with an FoS - just with... you know, a smudge. "Hey, that Mad sure is acting weird, just like that time, remember, when it was bad for the town? Let's all keep an eye on him."

Because ultimately, Mad's silly vote for Kat, which he did explain moments later, was no less substantial than any number of other votes and FoSes so far. Why did drainbead single him out for mention?

But then I thought - well, if one is a townie, at this stage of the game one tends to be overeager, grasping at any excuse to suspect someone because the game has started and I want to play it by golly. So that could be the explanation.

Which means, basically, that I have nothing. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.


(underlining added for emphasis)

Mad, you are a liar.

unvote Roosh
vote MadtheSwine
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #383 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:24pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:19pm, storyteller0910 wrote:



Quote:

You know, I hit "reply" to this intending to critique this argument, and then realized as I tried to write the post that the problem is it's actually a pretty good point. I mean - no offense, here, Mad - our porcine pal has developed a bit of a reputation for rather erratic behavior. Even though he's only been scum once, he seems to be one of those players who everyone defaults to suspecting.

So say you're scum, and playing with a new group for the first time. Have to say something, right? Well, why not start out by being the first to express misgivings about someone who you can reasonably predict will eventually give everyonemisgivings? It's sort of like complaining about Autolycus' lack of participation in previous games - it's a safe way to contribute, even substantively, without sticking your neck out. Particularly when you do it so quietly - not with a vote, not even with an FoS - just with... you know, a smudge. "Hey, that Mad sure is acting weird, just like that time, remember, when it was bad for the town? Let's all keep an eye on him."

Because ultimately, Mad's silly vote for Kat, which he did explain moments later, was no less substantial than any number of other votes and FoSes so far. Why did drainbead single him out for mention?

But then I thought - well, if one is a townie, at this stage of the game one tends to be overeager, grasping at any excuse to suspect someone because the game has started and I want to play it by golly. So that could be the explanation.

Which means, basically, that I have nothing. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.



*COUGHS*
See votes for ME!
*COUGHS*
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #384 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:24pm »
[Quote]

Mad, I just want the participation to be a little more even. There's a lot going on, and enough time has passed that people should start forming opinions. I'm not necessarily calling out lurkers because it's been two or three days, I'm calling out lurkers because we've got 13 pages and some people have only posted twice. I wouldn't vote for someone just because they're lurking at this stage in the game, but I want people to always keep the lurkers in mind. In a game of this size, it's easy for people to hide. It may not be that important now, but as time goes in it will be. I'll continue to keep an eye on it. Relatively speaking, my suspicion of lurkers is low compared to people who have been posting more, but that may be just the way they want it.

Also, the list is just numbers. One person's four posts may say more than another person's twenty. It's just one more way to analyze suspicion. For example, if I were suspecting you (which I'm not, even though your playstyle rubs me the wrong way sometimes) solely because of your low post count, I would maybe think to go back and view your previous posts in the thread. Which I just did. Your first post wasn't until Page 7, which leads me to believe that your low post count is due in part to the fact that you may have missed the beginning part of the game. You also mention your RL time constraints in that first post. So I would use that info to think "Okay, Mad isn't one of those bad lurkers--he has an excuse, and I know he'll play when he's available, so I'll cut him some slack." For me, the numbers are just one tool to use to figure out who I might need to focus on later.

Finally, the post about lurkers was the first part of a brain dump that took most of the afternoon/evening. It would probably have been one huge post had I had the time. Not sure if that makes a difference, but I was bored at work and wanted to do some analysis while I was sitting around waiting for my phone to ring.

I have a question for you about your vote, but I'll put it in the next post, because it deserves its own full thought.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #385 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:26pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:13pm, storyteller0910 wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 11:53am, Mad The Swine wrote:
Just a few thoughts...

i think the "I have a secret" posts are more a town tell than a scum tell.

This post really bothers me





[quote author=storyteller0910 board=game&qstat=full thread=1189466937 post=1189519590] [size=2]


In Asylum Lane storyteller did not give me any credit at all,other than calling my original HOF frivilous or trivial,(I don't remember exactly how he worded it) and seemed to take all the credit himself.I wonder why he gives me credit now.


Point of order: MadtheSwine is lying about this aspect of my behavior in Asylum Lane. I could demonstrate this. However, it would involve quoting posts from another game, which is so meta it's almost painful and is probably against the spirit of the game. On the other hand, the fact that Mad is lying in a forced effort to get some kind of naescent suspicion pointed in my direction seems extremely relevant. Hm. How about this:

Mad, your characterization is both irrelevant - as it relates to my actions in a totally separate game - and false - as in that previous game I explicitly noted in my first post about drain that I was agreeing with you. I never called your HoS on drain frivolous or trivial or anything of the sort, and I'm pretty sure I said, in that first drain-related post, that I thought you had "a good point." Later in the game, you even used the fact that I was agreeing with you as evidence of my purported scumminess.

So you're lying - I mean, just flat out lying - and you're creating a situation where in order to ascertain whether or not you're lying, players would have to research another game. This is not, I hardly need to say, a pro-town approach.


I am not lying.

You did say that I had a good point originally, I grant you that.

Once drain was confirmed scum,you took all the credit yourself.

Demonstrate it,go ahead, you wont like the results, so you wont do it.

Call it meta-gaming if you want,but wtf. I notice something from past games and I aint spose to mention it? We all do it ,that is a big part of this game.

You seem awful defensive about it.




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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #386 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:27pm »
[Quote]

Hmm... i wanna edit that post to make it clearer, but i'll just post below.

What I meant to say is. I like that quote alot. I feel its quite relevant to my own situation.

My votes are currently leaning towards Dnoo or Zeriel.

Though Atarus, I dislike how goodie-goodie you are. But you're a newbie, and so maybe you're tying to fit in. I felt the same way in Mafia VI.
But still. Grow a backbone, commit at some point! Dotchan was the one last game who always caught my eye because she'd say nice things about the people she was fos'ing in an attempt as she put it "To stay out of suspicion"
--And well, if that's your motive. It's really not Good Townie behavior. But then again, I was wrong about Dotchan. :shrug: so what do I know?

I'm apparently scum that really likes to be suspicious on Day 1 rather than a helpful townie.
/sarcasm

But just letting you know.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #387 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:30pm »
[Quote]

Jeez, that was a lot of posts in 'twixt the time I started that and when I finished it. Caerie, I'll get to your concerns when I'm done with this one.

Also in the meantime, I see a lot of my suspicions were raised by storyteller, but a lot of that might be brushed off by you as OMGUS, so I'll reiterate.

What, specifically, about storyteller's discussion of the last game makes him more likely to be scum in this one?

I'm trying to see your logic, and I can't.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #388 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:32pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:19pm, storyteller0910 wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 12:06pm, Mad The Swine wrote:


Yes it is.

I think I explained it.


Well, you know what, if I'm going to get votes on this basis, then I am going to bring in the actual evidence:

Asylum Lane, Day One, Page 5:

<in response to a post by Mad arguing that drain was trying to get him killed because he was an easy target>


Quote:

You know, I hit "reply" to this intending to critique this argument, and then realized as I tried to write the post that the problem is it's actually a pretty good point. I mean - no offense, here, Mad - our porcine pal has developed a bit of a reputation for rather erratic behavior. Even though he's only been scum once, he seems to be one of those players who everyone defaults to suspecting.

So say you're scum, and playing with a new group for the first time. Have to say something, right? Well, why not start out by being the first to express misgivings about someone who you can reasonably predict will eventually give everyonemisgivings? It's sort of like complaining about Autolycus' lack of participation in previous games - it's a safe way to contribute, even substantively, without sticking your neck out. Particularly when you do it so quietly - not with a vote, not even with an FoS - just with... you know, a smudge. "Hey, that Mad sure is acting weird, just like that time, remember, when it was bad for the town? Let's all keep an eye on him."

Because ultimately, Mad's silly vote for Kat, which he did explain moments later, was no less substantial than any number of other votes and FoSes so far. Why did drainbead single him out for mention?

But then I thought - well, if one is a townie, at this stage of the game one tends to be overeager, grasping at any excuse to suspect someone because the game has started and I want to play it by golly. So that could be the explanation.

Which means, basically, that I have nothing. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.


(underlining added for emphasis)

Mad, you are a liar.

unvote Roosh
vote MadtheSwine


Which is the post I granted .

How bout the rest of em,after drain died?

Where was my ^5 then?



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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #389 on Sept 13, 2007, 12:34pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 12:26pm, Mad The Swine wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 12:13pm, storyteller0910 wrote:
[quote author=madtheswine board=game thread=1189466937 post=1189648419]Just a few thoughts...

i think the "I have a secret" posts are more a town tell than a scum tell.

This post really bothers me







Point of order: MadtheSwine is lying about this aspect of my behavior in Asylum Lane. I could demonstrate this. However, it would involve quoting posts from another game, which is so meta it's almost painful and is probably against the spirit of the game. On the other hand, the fact that Mad is lying in a forced effort to get some kind of naescent suspicion pointed in my direction seems extremely relevant. Hm. How about this:

Mad, your characterization is both irrelevant - as it relates to my actions in a totally separate game - and false - as in that previous game I explicitly noted in my first post about drain that I was agreeing with you. I never called your HoS on drain frivolous or trivial or anything of the sort, and I'm pretty sure I said, in that first drain-related post, that I thought you had "a good point." Later in the game, you even used the fact that I was agreeing with you as evidence of my purported scumminess.

So you're lying - I mean, just flat out lying - and you're creating a situation where in order to ascertain whether or not you're lying, players would have to research another game. This is not, I hardly need to say, a pro-town approach.


I am not lying.

You did say that I had a good point originally, I grant you that.

Once drain was confirmed scum,you took all the credit yourself.


Show me where. Show me exactly where and when I took "credit" for anything (other than one happy night post in which I said, I think, that I finally got one right). I specifically stated throughout that my role in the drainbead lynching should not be taken as a point in my favor when others brought it up (I even smudged Blaster Master once for saying I was probably confirmed town for starting the drain wagon). I didn't want "credit" for that lynching because I didn't think it was wise for the town to be thinking in that way. I also never referred to your vote as frivolous, or trivial, or anything of the sort, as you state - so that's a lie, too.


Quote:

Demonstrate it,go ahead, you wont like the results, so you wont do it.


How do you expect me to "demonstrate" something that didn't happen? List all the posts that I didn't make? I have quoted the post in which I clearly stated that I thought you had a good idea and was taking off from it, which is the absolute definition of "giving you credit," which gives the lie to your post right from the start.


Quote:

Call it meta-gaming if you want,but wtf. I notice something from past games and I aint spose to mention it? We all do it ,that is a big part of this game.

You seem awful defensive about it.


No, actually, I'm not defensive at all. But you're lying, and that, it seems to me, is a bad thing. Let's see what others think.
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