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Sept 21, 2007, 12:24am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #630 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:41am »
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Ok then. I also think that the Mods' clarification was necessary, and it confirms some musings I've had. Having not read everything yet, I have been hesitant to voice musings over the past few days. I do still need to read through pretty much everything Roosh has posted and the related responses, but I have been following as best I can.

For those familiar with the show, think about the scenes surrounding the bar fight on Unification Day. After the brawl, back on Serenity, Simon warily asks Mal if any "Alliance interest" was paid to the brawl, and Mal assures him that it was just "among folk". I propose this scene as a possible microcosm of at least part of the composition of this game.

Mal=captain, browncoat, cranky about all things Alliance, particularly Unification.
Drunk Bald guy=Alliance Citizen, celebratory of Unification and all things Alliance.
"Alliance interest" that didn't show an intrest in the brawl = the occupying force trying to control everything, aka The Authorities.

It seems to help me to think about it that way, so I figure maybe it might help others.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #631 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:49am »
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[oog]I'd like to give Cookies a pat on the back for winning us the game over at the SD.

I'd also like to give Blaster Master AKA Spaceman Spiff AKA The King of all Bastards a kick on the ass for holding us all in suspense for the last 14 hours. While I admit you did an excellent job of being the game's Moderator, I hope you die a horrible, horrible death in this game.[/oog]

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #632 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:26am »
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Holy Tzao gao I've just read 4 pages of catching up just from where I left off last night! I think I slogged through well enough to not be confused over the confusion. Dnooman and Roosh are off my "vote for list". For now at least. The only other person that I would want to put a vote up for at this point is MadTheSwine for his agregious lie about storyteller, and nothing else to back up his vote.

I'm off to do a full re-read of the day and see if I can come up with anything else.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #633 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:52am »
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Enough people have checked in that I'm comfortable with an unvote Roosh, and a vote for MadTheSwine, with the caveat that my vote is right back on Roosh the moment there's any sort of counterclaim (duh, I guess). My runners up right now are zuma and pygmy, in that order. But seeing as I'm still not entirely sure what Mad was trying to accomplish by smearing Story, and that he hasn't really been posting anything productive or useful otherwise, I guess he wins the "who's scummiest" award for the moment. Until he roleclaims, I guess.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #634 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am »
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Wait a minute, why should we place any weight at all on Rooshes role claim? The whole premise of his manifesto rested on the fact that scum didn't have names. That was the first thing that made me suspect him. How did he know the scum didn't have names? Obviously, he was scum and him and his buddies didn't have names. How else would he know that? Did that ever occur to anybody before he stated it as fact?

Then he posits because scum don't have names we make people name-claim so they don't get shoved out the airlock. Scum will have to randomly grab a name and then we can out them when the person with the real name raises their hand.

Now Roosh claims to be Inara and on the side of the good guys. And everybody is like well it must be so. If he was scum he wouldn't pick Inara she's for sure in the game and someone will raise their hand and out him. If no one outs him he must be telling the truth and he's not scum. But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.




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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #635 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:31am »
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Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am, sinjin wrote:
Wait a minute, why should we place any weight at all on Rooshes role claim? The whole premise of his manifesto rested on the fact that scum didn't have names. That was the first thing that made me suspect him. How did he know the scum didn't have names? Obviously, he was scum and him and his buddies didn't have names. How else would he know that? Did that ever occur to anybody before he stated it as fact?

Then he posits because scum don't have names we make people name-claim so they don't get shoved out the airlock. Scum will have to randomly grab a name and then we can out them when the person with the real name raises their hand.

Now Roosh claims to be Inara and on the side of the good guys. And everybody is like well it must be so. If he was scum he wouldn't pick Inara she's for sure in the game and someone will raise their hand and out him. If no one outs him he must be telling the truth and he's not scum. But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.


Well, the other key point is, if he is scum and he doesn't have a name, he could very easily be deliberately picking a name that will definitely be in the game for two reasons.

1) It's believable, and AFAICT, unambiguously a good-guy role, which makes it easier to believe.

2) If he's false claiming, by claiming a major role, he would put someone, who was definitely in the game, and likely with a power role, in a difficult situation. For instance, suppose he has a very useful power; he's stuck with a difficult situation of outting himself to catch scum vs. staying quiet and protecting the power.

However, I can now substantiate my suspicion of Diomedes because of his reaction and being sure he's town. I don't like it one bit.

However, I'm still debating the cost/benefit of a vote here, so I'll get back with any other comments.

Oh, and...

:P Roosh is a GIRL! :-*
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #636 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:33am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am, sinjin wrote:
Now Roosh claims to be Inara and on the side of the good guys. And everybody is like well it must be so. If he was scum he wouldn't pick Inara she's for sure in the game and someone will raise their hand and out him. If no one outs him he must be telling the truth and he's not scum. But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.


No, we're thinking this because: (1) we're pretty sure Inara is in the game; and (2) No one else has yet said, "no, Roosh is lying, I am Inara."

It's really pretty simple. If Roosh is lying, then the real Inara will have to decide, based on what he or she knows, if it's worth speaking up and guaranteeing us a chance at catching scum in exchange for putting him-/herself at risk. If he or she speaks up, we deal with it then. If not, then there's no rush to lynch Roosh. He's not going anywhere. If the real Inara turns up dead tomorrow morning, or morning Day Six, we'll know where to go.

And if Roosh is telling the truth, we'd be fools to lynch him at this point.

All told, there is no good reason to lynch Roosh in the face of this claim. I think it's odd that you're so gung-ho to axe him - not scummy odd, per se, but odd.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #637 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:35am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am, sinjin wrote:
But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.

He told us that he assumed they either A) didn't have names, and would all be these nameless Reavers or whatever, or B) would have readily-identifiable-as-scum names (obviously not the case).

His claiming what is being said to be a major character's name (and no one else countering) doesn't completely remove him from suspicion, but it certainly drops him down the list.

unvote Roosh
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #638 on Sept 15, 2007, 3:54am »
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Whew, you guys sure like to post up a storm!

Unvote dnooman.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #639 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:05am »
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I thought that Roosh's grand scam was that either scum wouldn't have names, or that they'd have names that would be identifiable as scummy. (Blue Glove Guy #1,2; Lawrence Dobson, The Operative from Serenity)

I still don't like his plan, outing all our power roles in an attempt to sift through fake claims is a lot different than having one power role (especially one as weak as Roosh claims Inara is) outed in exchange for a scum. But I don't see why you think it's a scumtell, sinjin.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #640 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:15am »
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Sept 15, 2007, 3:31am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


1) It's believable, and AFAICT, unambiguously a good-guy role, which makes it easier to believe.

2) If he's false claiming, by claiming a major role, he would put someone, who was definitely in the game, and likely with a power role, in a difficult situation. For instance, suppose he has a very useful power; he's stuck with a difficult situation of outting himself to catch scum vs. staying quiet and protecting the power.

However, I can now substantiate my suspicion of Diomedes because of his reaction and being sure he's town. I don't like it one bit.


I'm only sure he's town because we haven't had a counterclaim. In every open game, scum could claim a power role in order to get a counterclaim, but haven't. Why not? Because the small number of scum makes them very hesitant to give up one of their number, even for a known quantity.

Inara's presence in the game is known, or at least assumable. What her powers are, are an unknown property. Would the scum really give up 1/5 or 1/6 of their numbers for an unknown? I think it's an unlikely enough gamble that I'm trusting Roosh until i see a counterclaim.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #641 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:20am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 2:28pm, mtgman wrote:
A common scum strategy is to obfuscate. To bury signal in noise. To sidetrack discussions away from the people involved and into other territory(such as rules nitpickery).


I know this. This is what I said when I first voted for Roosh.


Quote:
When I see an experienced player flinging posts right and left questioning a well known and extremely frequently used rule(majority to lynch is probably THE most common lynch setup on mafiascum.net), that sets it off.


I know that. I was asking did "majority" mean 15 players or just one player having A "majority" of votes (which to me meant "more than anyone else").

And you can argue that that's not what majority means six ways to Sunday but I didn't know that at the time and I apparently wasn't the only one confused.


Quote:
When that player skirts the other rules(such as rule 4) to continue this hijack(instead of sending a PM to the mods) it looks like they're trying to distract the other players.


It was a rules clarification question. A rule that was posted publically. I don't see how that's game mechanics. Seems NAF didn't think so either..so what's the beef you still carry?


Quote:
A townie needs to be able to focus on the game, not nitpickery of the rules.


I agree.
Where was I nitpicking?

I was asking for clarification "So does that mean fifteen on one or just someone with more votes than anyone else?" Easy as pie. How is that nitpicking?


Quote:
A scum, on the other hand, knows everything they need to know from their role PM. There's other stuff they'd LIKE to know, I'm sure(especially in a closed game), but everything they NEED to know is in their PM.


Sorry, but the explaination of the voting system wasn't explained in the PM it was explained in this topic.


Quote:
Now, whether you agree with my reasoning or not, that's neither here nor there, but I consider my FOS well supported at this point.

Enjoy,
Steven


Then I think that you're scum. Because I can't imagine anyone who is town would try so hard with something so weak and twisted by way of what went on.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #642 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:52am »
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Sept 15, 2007, 4:15am, Diomedes wrote:
I'm only sure he's town because we haven't had a counterclaim. In every open game, scum could claim a power role in order to get a counterclaim, but haven't. Why not? Because the small number of scum makes them very hesitant to give up one of their number, even for a known quantity.

Inara's presence in the game is known, or at least assumable. What her powers are, are an unknown property. Would the scum really give up 1/5 or 1/6 of their numbers for an unknown? I think it's an unlikely enough gamble that I'm trusting Roosh until i see a counterclaim.


That's not what I'm saying. I don't think scum will step out and go "Hey, I'm not under any suspicion, but just so you all know I am so-and-so, I'm a major role, and I have shiny pro-town powers." Most role claims occur as a last ditch effort to protect oneself. For scum, if they're being forced to role-claim, they're pretty much dead anyway, so they might as well try to get information out of it anyway, right?

For instance, let's assume that Roosh is a bad guy and has no name (as has been theorized), then he's FORCED to claim. Now, he can either choose a less important role from the universe, have high risk of overlap, and most likely not overlap with a power role, making a role-claim the obvious choice. Thus, if he's going to claim, he might as well take a major role that will have a high chance of overlap, and either get away with it (because the real role doesn't want to counter) or, force a town power role to out himself. Keep in mind, without a role-claim, he was almost certainly going to die.

Now assume he is a badguy. If he has a very evil name, he'd pretty much have to pick another one anyway, and the above reasoning applies, OR he really is her, and his powers and alignment could mean anything.

IOW, it's more often than not a lemonade from lemons scenario.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #643 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:52am »
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I still haven't reached the end of this topic yet. Still catching up.
For the record, though, I've reached the post where Roosh roleclaims and I find it very interesting what he mentioned. I even went back to check my PM and my own win conditions.

Vote Dnooman without a doubt. I shan't be changing it either.

Now to continue on reading and catching up.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #644 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:53am »
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Sept 14, 2007, 11:42pm, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies wrote:
I'm tempted to leave my vote on Roosh until he at least acknowledges that he's a rutting pain in the ass to play with, and that he will at least try to reign himself in. :P


I'll admit it. Last game I tried playing it Storytellers way.
This time, I decided to change my tactics and play like MadTheSwine.
Then Mad the Swine Showed up with his Storyteller rant, and out-Madded me. And since then, I've been regretting trying to play like MadTheSwine. It's just too... crazy-hard. But i figured I had the perfect role to try something like that. Though I was kinda trying really hard to get NIGHTkilled, not day lynched. =(

~~~~~~~~~
Also, I've now seen post 626. So with that, I can see how my role would be freaking confusing trying kill off "evil townies"
So i'm content to Unvote Dnooman due to Mod clarification.
As for the posting thing, see that's the information I've day since night 1. Because as SO many of you have pointed out "He could be a townie with a really bad idea".
So I've been trying to make my idea work, knowing that I've got a role that I know is VERY Pro-Town. So if you're waiting for a counter, don't hold your breath, Sinjin.
And if you wanna dance, if you're scum, come find me at night....
And then we'll dance. 8-)



Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am, sinjin wrote:

Now Roosh claims to be Inara and on the side of the good guys. And everybody is like well it must be so. If he was scum he wouldn't pick Inara she's for sure in the game and someone will raise their hand and out him. If no one outs him he must be telling the truth and he's not scum. But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.


Whoa whoa whoa. I didn't see Scum didn't have names. Well. I did. But that was WAY back in the beginning w/ my ideas. I've had like 10 freaking pages to say okay, this might not be true. (see my countless realizations that Okay, i didn't think it through).
But use your head. Either you've got tunnel vision, or you're just really itching to kill me.
Why would scum claim a major role? It's safer to claim a more "obscure" role. I know my role, and I've known it from day 1. It's why I was always down with claiming from the get go (Dnoo just beat me to it and then i was confused). I've also been Pro-Diomedes since Night.5 as well. THERE ARE REASONS for that. I've been leaving TONS of hints all along the way trying to hope that some of you realize that. But it's gotten lost in the noise.
I've had LOTS of valid GOOD posts, that i will admit have gotten lost in here. I was actually figuring i'd come back and be lynched, and then at least you guys could look through the data for the next few days with the information THAT EVERYTHING I'VE SAID HAS BEEN 100% PRO-TOWN. (except for the OMGUS vote, sorry BM) It might not have been worded smartly, and yes, there were assumptions and flaws, but jeez.... I'm not that shiny.
But I AM shiny. 8-)

Sept 15, 2007, 3:31am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


:P Roosh is a GIRL! :-*

yeah.... :( That's true. But at least I'm a sexy girl!
: Goes to oggle self in mirror:


~but on a more serious note~ Yeah, I didn't play this character well, and probably could have been done better. But I figured, hey... "What would Mad do?" and then I tried to run with my role.

On the other hand, I would like to also point out, that I think theRoosh's Name Claiming Idea is kinda successful. It needs work, but see? I knew my role was Pro-town. That's the reason I've been pitching my idea, only thing was then i realized, I'm proTown, and I kinda have a power. So other big guys from the show might not wanna reveal who they are. Oh, and i don't need the doc's protection, I expect nothing, and if i die, i die. It'll just confirm me further. Though maybe I will get protected...
*oooooh... Waves Cup of wine in front of scum* Sorry, I always wanted to do that.


And I'm gonna try to post less chunks and go back to my old way of just giant Blocks of posts. Just read them Mhaye or Hal or whoever said they hated it and ignored it last game!

/Now. I can stop defending myself, and actually start looking at people.

Pygmy, i randomly shall look at you today. Because i remembeer someone yelling at me for yelling at pygmy but not story about something early in the Day (like pre-RooshIdea1.0)
~~~~
Though i wish at 4-5 in the morning i kinda had the sense NOT to post my whole role. :(
~~~
Anyways, as always, a sure fire way to make me post is to ask me about ANYTHING.
I'll always try to answer. It may not be a great answer, but it's Data. And that's traceable evidence.
**So go back and look at that one post I had where I pointed out the peep who weren't posting were suspicious, i wasn't trying to divert the lynch there. I actually found them suspicious.

~R
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #645 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:56am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 4:52am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


Now assume he is a badguy. If he has a very evil name, he'd pretty much have to pick another one anyway, and the above reasoning applies, OR he really is her, and his powers and alignment could mean anything.


My idea! See! It sounds good when YOU say it! That's what I've been saying all along. Evil people would be forced to pick. But i know no one can claim this name, because it's my own. And if i got called out today, and lynched, I'll gladly go because then you can lynch the idiot who claimed to be me tomorrow.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #646 on Sept 15, 2007, 4:57am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 1:06am, NAF1138 wrote:
A clarification...since we humped up the role PM's. In your role PM's where it says "win condition all Alliance members dead" Alliance=scum. If it said you were an "Alliance Citizen" Alliance DOES NOT EQUAL scum, but rather town. My apologies for any unintended confusion this may have caused.


Idle, this is a key clarification, dude. I made the same mistake.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #647 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:02am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 4:53am, Roosh wrote:
Why would scum claim a major role? It's safer to claim a more "obscure" role. I know my role, and I've known it from day 1. It's why I was always down with claiming from the get go (Dnoo just beat me to it and then i was confused). I've also been Pro-Diomedes since Night.5 as well. THERE ARE REASONS for that.


Roosh, if you are saying what you appear to be saying in the latter half of this paragraph, then I'd really like to know why. It seems like, if your claim is true, you are being extremely free with information that perhaps needn't be public right now.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #648 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:03am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 5:02am, storyteller0910 wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 4:53am, Roosh wrote:
Why would scum claim a major role? It's safer to claim a more "obscure" role. I know my role, and I've known it from day 1. It's why I was always down with claiming from the get go (Dnoo just beat me to it and then i was confused). I've also been Pro-Diomedes since Night.5 as well. THERE ARE REASONS for that.


Roosh, if you are saying what you appear to be saying in the latter half of this paragraph, then I'd really like to know why. It seems like, if your claim is true, you are being extremely free with information that perhaps needn't be public right now.


I hasten to add - I do NOT want to know why you are pro-Diomedes. I want to know why you are mentioning this at all right now.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #649 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:04am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 2:10pm, storyteller wrote:
]
Surprisingly enough, I don't agree. Here's the thing: rereading mtgman's initial post from a cooler perspective, I think the motive behind it is simpler than what you suggest above: I think it's very likely that he just plumb doesn't like me. I mean, check it out - the insult was, as I said above, essentially a drive-by. It didn't even seem to have an in-game purpose. It's not like he said anything to suggest that I was scum, or even to lightly smudge. It was just an expression of disdain for - not suspicion of - my posting style.

If mtgman were trying to finish of MadtheSwine's alley-oop, as it were, wouldn't he have at least turned his attack slightly in the direction of suggesting something scummy about me?

This is not to say that I think mtgman is or isn't scum - just that I'm not so sure his remarks on the subject of my posting style were intended as particularly in-game, and therefore didn't seem scummy to me.



Sept 14, 2007, 2:10pm, mtgman wrote:


Sept 14, 2007, 9:51am, diggitcamara wrote:
[size=1]Here, however, his behavior is interesting. He picks up a theme which, obviously, has irked another player whose participation has usually been pretty interesting (when he doesn't get killed in Night 2, that is). And runs with it.

The funny thing is, he picks up on that player's behavior during his (very successful) run as super-scum and during his run as a monk (pro-town) (leaving aside his most recent, successful role as normal citizen).
The simple reason is I didn't read the Asylum Lane game and know jack about it or storyteller0910's behavior in it.

Sept 14, 2007, 9:51am, diggitcamara wrote:
Interesting too is his underlining of supposed strategies during those two games without even trying to sketch the current strategy storyteller would be using (for my part both his first and his most current participation both show signs of similarity to his participation during the Firefly game).
What his current strategy is? No idea. I've just noticed his reactions to being suspected tend towards the dramatic. This sparks discussion both as reactions to his reactions and because he's a popular character in this group with a well thought of playstyle. He's an excellent writer(professional writer IIRC) and can be very persuasive. Drawing someone like him, and those who follow his posts and take note of his interactions with others, into a discussion(or an arguement) may be detrimental to one's own health(as it was to mine in M5, at least when combined with my own "try to draw an early nightkill" strategy) but it gets people posting. He gave himself away, to me at least, as having hidden information in M5 based on his overreaction(admitted as such in his funny story) to my own posts. So the poke was partly to see how he would react, and partly to stir up the rest of the players. In these kinds of games you can't trust anyone. Everybody plays everybody else.

What my comment was not intended to be, as he seems to believe, was personal in the slightest. Not much I can do about that. When it seemed he was taking things I said too personally in M5 I tried to offer the olive branch there. He rebuffed me there for in-game reasons and I have no idea how he would react to a similar offering now. It's a moot point anyway because no matter if his reactions are genuine hurt feelings or the work of an accomplished wordsmith, pushing his buttons has been declared verboten by our beloved mods, so that's that.

Enjoy,
Steven


So: now that mtgman has stated that his quote was not actually inspired by some repressed anger against you, but rather to stir up some sentiment by you and other players, does that change your assessment, storyteller?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #650 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:17am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 8:33pm, drainbead wrote:
Okay, zuma, sorry about that...when I posted it I thought I was at the end of the last page, and there were two more freakin' pages after that. Damn, you guys are prolific.

How convenient it is that Roosh has a passive ability that will now make the scum "afraid" of nightkilling him! If people believe his claim, it gives him a reason why he never gets nightkilled...the scum just don't want a chance of losing one of their own!

To borrow a quote from Blaster, that's so scummy that I wish I could vote for you twice.


I don't know if I fully believe him yet or not, but I'm leaning stronger on the side of he's Town, or at least on the side of good.
But that doesn't matter because I KNOW that dnooman is of another team of me based on what's been said and what I went back and checked in my PM.

So that is where my vote will lie.

But back to Roosh's alignment. I don't fully believe him yet either, like I just said...but I cannot wrap my mind around how someone could find him as scummy as you apparently do. ???


Well, I see one post later you take it back. Huh.


Sept 15, 2007, 12:30am, sinjin wrote:
I'm trying to be a little oblique because I don't want to give scum any more data than they have. But I know dnooman and I are on the same team. Roosh seems confused about what team he's on and clearly states that it's different than dnooman's.


I don't know about anything else but MY team/role/alignment/whatever you want to call it requires dnooman to be dead based on things that he has said himself. So I know that he's got to be on a team different than mine.

I'm trusting Roosh more and more as I get caught up I find.

I don't know what this game has in store or what NAF or Kat or even JSexton thought up but it stinks with the confusion. :P

The only way I can think of where dnooman could be on my side is if he's an EXCEPTION to the PM I got.
Unless there's two goals/win conditions that are horribly alike enough to cause confustion. Like FCoD said, there was one little modified thing that makes me pause. But it's a very, very little thing. Such a small thing really. But on reflection, it could have a vast difference in meanings.

So I'm holding for now, but my vote will remain on dnooman.


Sept 15, 2007, 12:36am, Diomedes wrote:
I've gone back and read dnooman's post again. He clearly states his alignment is Crew. The fact that he claims that he's an Alliance citizen is merely a reference to his character, Sheriff Bourne, isn't a Browncoat. I think Roosh got confused on this one, and I ended up confused in the same manner. I don't know if I've actually officially FOS'd dnooman, but I've done what amounts to the same thing. With a reread of his claim post, I'm going to unFOS: dnooman for the moment.

I still don't know what to make of his night post, however. Can I Fingernail Of Misgiving: dnooman ?


Okay, thus starts the confusion (as if we and I already weren't enough).

I guess the question is, then, was dnooman saying his character was Alliance (on the show only), but for some reason the character is NOT Alliance in the game but instead crew..........or was he saying he is that name and his role is Alliance town but with an ALIGNMENT of crew?

It makes a huge hellofa difference.
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 Vote Count
« Reply #651 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:21am »
[Quote]

You guys don't make this easy. M2 was cake compared to this.

In other words, I am having fun and I hope you all are too! (but I am glad I am not doing this alone.)

Vote Count:
5-Mad the Swine (storyteller, atarus, Greedy Smurf, FCoD, drainbead)
4-Roosh (Blaster Master, dnooman, sinjin, Cookies)
1-Dnooman (Idle Thoughts)
1-mtgman (diggitcamera)
1-Pygmy Rugger (Diomedes)
1-Storyteller (Mad The Swine)


And Mr. Pig takes the lead.

13 of 28 votes cast






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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #652 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:33am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 5:21am, NAF1138 wrote:
You guys don't make this easy. M2 was cake compared to this.

In other words, I am having fun and I hope you all are too! (but I am glad I am not doing this alone.)

Vote Count:
5-Mad the Swine (storyteller, atarus, Greedy Smurf, FCoD, drainbead)
4-Roosh (Blaster Master, dnooman, sinjin, Cookies)
1-Dnooman (Idle Thoughts)
1-mtgman (diggitcamera)
1-Pygmy Rugger (Diomedes)
1-Storyteller (Mad The Swine)


And Mr. Pig takes the lead.

13 of 28 votes cast








Anyone who needs additional clarity on their win conditions, PM me ASAP, before you post anything else to the game. I don't want things to be more confusing then they have to be (although a LOT of this is going to be much more clear after toNight)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #653 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:35am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 1:06am, NAF1138 wrote:
A clarification...since we humped up the role PM's. In your role PM's where it says "win condition all Alliance members dead" Alliance=scum. If it said you were an "Alliance Citizen" Alliance DOES NOT EQUAL scum, but rather town. My apologies for any unintended confusion this may have caused.


unvote dnooman

Gah, now I don't know what to think.
I believed/believe dnooman but based on what my win conditions are, he had to be dead no matter if he was good or bad Alliance. But now I read that's not the case.


Sept 15, 2007, 3:33am, storyteller0910 wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 3:19am, sinjin wrote:
Now Roosh claims to be Inara and on the side of the good guys. And everybody is like well it must be so. If he was scum he wouldn't pick Inara she's for sure in the game and someone will raise their hand and out him. If no one outs him he must be telling the truth and he's not scum. But why are we thinking this? because ROOSH told us scum didn't have names.


No, we're thinking this because: (1) we're pretty sure Inara is in the game; and (2) No one else has yet said, "no, Roosh is lying, I am Inara."


I think she's saying: How do we know he's not really Inara but that Inara is scum with a name? Why should we assume they don't have names just because he told us they didn't?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #654 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:36am »
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Sept 15, 2007, 4:52am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


For instance, let's assume that Roosh is a bad guy and has no name (as has been theorized), then he's FORCED to claim. Now, he can either choose a less important role from the universe, have high risk of overlap, and most likely not overlap with a power role, making a role-claim the obvious choice. Thus, if he's going to claim, he might as well take a major role that will have a high chance of overlap, and either get away with it (because the real role doesn't want to counter) or, force a town power role to out himself. Keep in mind, without a role-claim, he was almost certainly going to die.

Now assume he is a badguy. If he has a very evil name, he'd pretty much have to pick another one anyway, and the above reasoning applies, OR he really is her, and his powers and alignment could mean anything.

IOW, it's more often than not a lemonade from lemons scenario.


This makes a lot of sense. However, with the benefit of the claim here, I don't see any reason why we still lynch him now. There are other scum in the sea, for one. If Inara comes up dead later on, we lynch Roosh. If someone else claims Inara, we lynch them both, and we'll have gotten a scum.
So, right now, we can either lynch Roosh, and potentially be killing a (semi?) power role, or we can keep him as a kept option, in case his claim doesn't work out for him. If he's not telling the truth, we'll find out at some point and sha him.

Are you really against having Inara as a kept woman? ;)

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #655 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:39am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 4:56am, Roosh wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 4:52am, Spaceman Spiff wrote:


Now assume he is a badguy. If he has a very evil name, he'd pretty much have to pick another one anyway, and the above reasoning applies, OR he really is her, and his powers and alignment could mean anything.


My idea! See! It sounds good when YOU say it! That's what I've been saying all along. Evil people would be forced to pick. But i know no one can claim this name, because it's my own. And if i got called out today, and lynched, I'll gladly go because then you can lynch the idiot who claimed to be me tomorrow.


You kind of missed the point, it was part of a whole list of possibilities. If you're telling the truth, based on people's reactions, your power doesn't make any sense, so why should we assume that the bad-guys are all that obvious? And even if that is that case, it's not necessarily going to be true that someone will counterclaim.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #656 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:40am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 5:35am, Idle Thoughts wrote:

I think she's saying: How do we know he's not really Inara but that Inara is scum with a name? Why should we assume they don't have names just because he told us they didn't?


This is a fair question. I think the answer is, if Inara is scum in this game, then the theme and color are not just being used as a neutral factor to add interest, but in an active attempt to deceive the non-scum players. I hope that's not the case.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #657 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:42am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 5:35am, Idle Thoughts wrote:

I think she's saying: How do we know he's not really Inara but that Inara is scum with a name? Why should we assume they don't have names just because he told us they didn't?


I fear trying to go through all of Roosh's posts if I don't have to, but does anyone have, offhand, a place where Roosh stated scum didn't have real names? I mean, other than just suggested it as a possibility?

I'm not saying he did, I'm not saying he didn't. I'm just lazy, and I'm trying to figure out how reasonable the claims of people still against him are. If nobody knows, I'll dig through the War & Peace which is Roosh's post history.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #658 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:53am »
[Quote]


Sept 14, 2007, 11:38pm, Flying(Boy)CowOfDoom wrote:

Sept 14, 2007, 3:49pm, zuma wrote:
You know, I'm an idiot.
What the fuck does this mean? You know, I don't mind the filters changing a word here and there, but if we're going to have to learn Mandarin to understand each other maybe it's not such a good idea...

Fuck. I have no idea what to do. I was initailly suspicious of Roosh's claim because with a closed setup I tend to assume that anyone with a win condition that differs from my own should die. I have a very difficult time understanding what the fuck Roosh is saying, but from what I can gather, his win condition sounds similar to my own. There's a slight distinction on which I am unclear that could make me want him to die, and he was not clear enough about it in his claim for me to decide one way or another. So, I am stuck without any clue what to do. I guess I'll leave my vote on MadTheSwine for now.

--FCOD


By the way, I unflitered that, it was too hard to understand even in context. So your post now looks silly, but the previous one is readable.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #659 on Sept 15, 2007, 5:58am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 5:40am, storyteller0910 wrote:

This is a fair question. I think the answer is, if Inara is scum in this game, then the theme and color are not just being used as a neutral factor to add interest, but in an active attempt to deceive the non-scum players. I hope that's not the case.


I bet it's not the case. There are too many roles within the Firefly universe which would match up perfectly with Mafia roles (Jayne= Vigilante or Bodyguard, Simon or Book= Doc/Priest, Mal= MtS from M4, Cookies from M5/ sturmhawke from M1). Plus, there aren't that many really unique villains in the 'verse to maek up enough power role titles. *Plus*, my alignment is Crew, and I'm seeking the d=elimination of the Alliance. What sense would it make to have the good guys be referred to as "Alliance"?
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