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Sept 21, 2007, 12:22am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #420 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:28pm »
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What remained of my mafia-mojo has now completely spent over in M5, so I will not be making any meaningful contribution to this thread until at least sometime tomorrow, when I've metabolized some more.

Thanks so much for your presumed undertanding, y'all. It is really sweet of you. :-*
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"I could stand to hear a little more..."

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #421 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:28pm »
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I haven't kept up with the offboard games much, but almost every single early-game argument on the SMDB boards has been 'twixt two vigilant townies. Not saying they aren't scum, or that one or the other is, but fights like these don't really raise my Finger by anything more than the arguments comprising them.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #422 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:29pm »
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+ been
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"I could stand to hear a little more..."

M1 - vanilla townie - win
M3 - vanilla townie - win
M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. :P)
M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #423 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:35pm »
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gorram. I really shouldn't have mentioned my personal win condition. Of all the things to keep secret, that should have been it. One little post, and I expose myself as scum, by basically saying that I'm not town. Sorry, fellow scum guys. I humped up. These townies are smart. They caught me wearing the wrong jersey, and now they know something's up. ::)



Well, true to form, I'm good at taking heat early on.


'twixt training, studying, and sleep, I've not had too much time to devote to the game, let alone read War and Peace when I can get online. That's not gonna change until the end of next week. I've been able to do a decent amount of skimming, but not a whole lot more. I just hope some poor schlub doesn't have to inherit my mess in the event I have to sub out.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #424 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:46pm »
[Quote]

Okay, phew, I read all that. Now...ARGHBPTH!


Sept 13, 2007, 12:00pm, Mad The Swine wrote:
<drainbead's long post about posting numbers snipped>

It is the second day In Day1 and you are already hunting lurkers?

Seems a bit witch hunty to me.

I will and HOS drain bead and vote storyteller

(color removed)

Now, okay, first off you can say that it's the second day of Day 1 (third day now, technically), but you forget to mention that there is about 14 pages in 2 days. 14 pages at 30 posts a page = ~420 posts so far. Now, drainbead's post was made near the end of page 11, so that's about ~330 total posts at that time.

I reorganized the numbers, let's take a look at the top 5 and bottom 5 posters:

TOP:
Roosh 49
Idle Thoughts 24
Pygmy Rugger 22
CatinaSuit 21
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies/storyteller 19 (both Cookies and story had 19 at this point, so either one can be put in top 5)

BOTTOM:
Dnooman 2
Hal Briston 2
Yattara 2
zeriel 2
tragic 0

Top posters make up 135 total posts, or ~40% of the entire Day's posting so far. The bottom 5 posters make up 8 total posts, or ~.02% of the entire Day's posts. And sure, for argument's sake, let's take Roosh (who's in a league of his own posting-wise anyway) completely out of the equation. Subtract his 49 from the 330 total, that makes it 281 total posts, and let's add in the other 19 poster so the top 5 looks like this:

Idle Thoughts 24
CatinaSuit 21
Pygmy Rugger 22
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 19
Storyteller 19

That's still 105 posts, which is 37% of 281, while the bottom 5 are still at about .03%.

So considering only 5 people have made up over 1/3 of the total arguments/discussion (including Roosh or not including him) and the bottom 5 people have made up less than 1/20 of the discussion, don't you think it's a good idea to get that bottom 5 to speak up so we can hear what they think? I mean, we can't judge if they're townie or scum on 2 posts, unless we want to make wild assumptions. I mean, look, Roosh has the most votes on him right now, and why's that? Probably because he's posted so gorram much!

So based on the numbers, seriously, why FOS drainbead for pointing out a valid thing. If things keeps going the way they're going, the people that aren't talking can just pop in, vote for Roosh, the person who most everybody's thinking is obviously scummy right now, and not generate any new discussion to pump blood into our eager little brains. Seems kinda fishy to me to completely wave away lurkers. And maybe you can say "well I didn't feel like doing all that math" but seriously, all you have to do is look at drainbead's post and look at how much has been posted already to come to a similar conclusion.

As for this whole crusade against storyteller, GAH, it just screams random scum gambit to me. What I see, is storyteller is known for being really good at this game. If you're scum, you will know if story's town, and that he's not on your side. So you set up this straw man argument (Story was mean to me last game, but this game he's nice to me so that's odd! I'mma vote for him! --oversimplified, I know, but that's the gist I got from the whole thing) and attack him in true Mad style. If it somehow works, you get story lynched Day 1, eliminating a strong player, and you can chalk it all up to "Mad being Mad! That's just what he does!" But if it doesn't work, you can still chalk it up to "Mad being Mad! That's just what he does!"

I don't buy it. I also think that storyteller's responses are a bit over the top, but at the same time, I think I'd react the same way when I suddenly get a vote out of NOWHERE for basically nothing I've done in this game!

Do I fully think either of you are town? Not yet. Do I think at least one of you is acting hella scummy? Yes, why, yes I do. Haven't had a reason to vote yet, but now I do. Vote for who you think is scummiest, therefore:

Vote MadtheSwine
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #425 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:50pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 8:13am, drainbead wrote:
Things that make me think that Roosh is Town:
--My familiarity with his playstyle from the last game. I generally dislike meta-gaming, but I think a lot of the people that are finding his playstyle to be scummy are people who didn't pay too much attention to Asylum Lane. He was a very vocal townie in that game and played pretty much exactly the same way. Lots of stream-of-consciousness rambling in that game as well. Once you get used to it, you find he comes up with some gems, which leads me to...


Snipped.

I dunno. I don't think that basing behaviors off of previous games is too smart. People could employ the same things in games as scum as they did as town in other games. I mean look at me in IV and V. So there shoots that thing down.

Not saying Roosh is or is not Town. Just saying I wouldn't really hold strong suspicion based on how someone is acting in this game compared to other games. It just seems like it has the possiblity of thinking, eventually that it'll be the case all the time.


Sept 13, 2007, 8:52am, mtgman wrote:
Ok, Roosh, here's the deal. You've made a bunch of assumptions about how Kat and Naf have structured the game, the most dubious is that they've used the list they linked to on Wikipedia to determine the roles we'd be given. There's absolutely no reason to think they did(unless yours was one of those, which frankly reveals more than you may have intended).


It's already been said and linked to a couple times that NAF himself said he put a lot of the roles on Wikipedia's list in this game. So I don't see why your level of disbelief is as high as it is.

Snipped.


Quote:

Beyond that, I don't have a bunch to contribute at this point. Still think Idle Thoughts is scummy because of his arguementative demeanor and his "misunderstandings" of clear, unambigious rules.


What's the quote marks for? Do you HONESTLY think I was faking my misunderstanding? Yeah, sure there buddy. How much is rent on the cloud houses you live in? In case you missed the memos, I wasn't the only one confused by the wording or having a different definition of the word "majority". I don't understand or see how this equates to being scummy. That's like saying "you forgot a period in that last sentence, so you're scum."


Sept 13, 2007, 12:07pm, Caerie wrote:
I am a bit suspicious of drainbead at this point, though. 'twixt the way she drew extra attention to her vote switch and her statement of being uncomfortable with her vote switch after making it, it just struck me as a "plausible deniability" gambit for later.


Yeah, it struck me the same way.


Anyway, I'm torn 'twixt Roosh (who I am leaning more toward misled Town than Scum right now) and dnooman (who I don't really have ANY read on right now). I, personally, don't want to vote for either of them. But this fifteen votes or no lynch thing is going to be hard to stop from everyone jumping on someone JUST so a lynch will occur. Now if one is scum, you obviously want this to happen but will probably appear that you don't want it to happen at all. I really feel uncomfortable with the forced voting everyone will have to do to get a lynch. It seems either vote for one of the vote leaders (even against your own judgement) or not vote at all but never wind up killing off possible scum in the Day.

It's a rock and a hard place.

I'm still happy with my vote for now.


Regarding things coming from another game...yeah, this is bad, I feel, as I've said before. Why base things that happened in other games? Heck, I, myself, want to change up my game style since I have used the same one three games now....once a power role (III), once as a vanilla town (IV) and once as scum (V). Does that mean I'm scummy if I act totally different from all the other games? Well, if you think so, then you're basing it on very stupid things because I have acted the same in all games so far yet have had vast roles. So what does this tell us?

NOTHING!

So don't bother basing suspicions on past games, I say.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #426 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:57pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 1:31pm, storyteller0910 wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 4:43am, atarus wrote:
FIRST, correct me if I'm wrong here, but we have no idea if the scum can Daytalk, right? I went back and re-read the rules and there's been no indication if the scum are restricted to nighttalking, or if they can discuss strategy during the Day. So until proven otherwise, I personally believe we should treat it as if the scum CAN coordinate during the Day. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.


You're not wrong, and we've had no official word. But the town isn't permitted to strategize at night; it would be a bit inequitable if the scum were permitted to strategize during the Day.


Actually, I seem to recall NAF saying somewhere that we could talk about anything we wanted but we couldn't vote.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #427 on Sept 13, 2007, 2:58pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 2:35pm, dnooman wrote:
gorram. I really shouldn't have mentioned my personal win condition. Of all the things to keep secret, that should have been it. One little post, and I expose myself as scum, by basically saying that I'm not town. Sorry, fellow scum guys. I humped up. These townies are smart. They caught me wearing the wrong jersey, and now they know something's up. ::)

Well, true to form, I'm good at taking heat early on.


So uh. You again go with the Sarcasm/light hearted defense.
So you slipped up. Okay. Everyone makes a foolish post.
May I ask then, WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR ME? ???


Sept 13, 2007, 2:46pm, atarus wrote:
If things keeps going the way they're going, the people that aren't talking can just pop in, vote for Roosh, the person who most everybody's thinking is obviously scummy right now, and not generate any new discussion to pump blood into our eager little brains. Seems kinda fishy to me to completely wave away lurkers.


Because right now, you're in that bottom % of lurky-people. You,Dnooman, AND Zeriel. And here's the thing. You guys BOTH have put votes on me w/o any real explanation and quickly blended into the background.
I don't mind getting votes, but I'd like them to be ya know... explainable. This right now just seems like an inconspicuous bandwagonning type of vote to raise the numbers and hide.


I'd like both of you guys to talk more.
Especially on why you're voting for me.
You more so Dnoo, because your weak defenses seem almost hypocritical because every single one of them can be used by ME to defend MYSELF.
Most Uncool.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #428 on Sept 13, 2007, 3:00pm »
[Quote]


1) We are going back to the traditional no strategy at Night. You can talk at Night, but no strategy may be discussed. -NAF

Just to help you out IT
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #429 on Sept 13, 2007, 3:04pm »
[Quote]

Okay, well, wrong about that then, but thanks.


Sept 13, 2007, 2:05pm, Diomedes wrote:
Oh, sorry. unvote: wtf and then Vote: Idle Thoughts

Order of operations and all.


Funny, I would have thought the order was to give reasons and then vote for someone, not vote for someone and give the "Reasons coming later! Stay tuned!" line.

Taking a page out of Roosh's book?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #430 on Sept 13, 2007, 3:05pm »
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Hey! Low Blow, Man... Low blow :D

and I obviously stole that from Mad's playbook. But now what he's doing, I've got no idea.
: takes notes for future games:
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #431 on Sept 13, 2007, 4:50pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 2:50pm, Idle Thoughts wrote:

It's already been said and linked to a couple times that NAF himself said he put a lot of the roles on Wikipedia's list in this game. So I don't see why your level of disbelief is as high as it is.



Clarification. It's a minor point, but possibly important. The game was created without the wikipedia list, I found those lists after the game was set (about 5 minutes before I made that post.)


But I see how my statment could be read the other way. I don't want to accidentally spread misinformation...so a minor correction, but it is best to make sure everything I say is crystal clear.

(and my internet is back up at home! shiny! )
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #432 on Sept 13, 2007, 4:54pm »
[Quote]

Roosh - Holy shit, man, this game is not your own personal sounding board. You are not Jerry Springer. Calm down, buddy. Take a break, it's amazing the change in paradigm you get from clicking F5 every 420 seconds to reading an entire page at a time.

I have noticed one thing, though. It's universally accepted by those of us who read or participated in Asylum that Roosh tends to have relatively long, rambling posts. What I would refer to as, "shooting from the hip." It does strike me, though, that Roosh has taken this idea and run with it. He knows people realize this, and has upped the ante a bit. "If people think I'm town when I throw out some thoughts in a less than organized manner, then if I throw out this scheme of mine, people will really think I'm town!" I can see this line of thought he may have if he's scum, but I can also see it as an overeager townie.

I have a couple problems with his master theory, too. First, just because we know somebody's name doesn't mean anything. Two examples:
The Harry Potter game, where Harry and his pals ended up being scum. Not lynching Harry just because he must be town is a bad idea. This is subject to change later, when we get more information, which right now we don't have. Unless the information you have is that you're a bad guy in name, and a bad guy in the game. In which case it makes perfect sense.
JSexton ran a Clue based game, which he posted a link to as suggested reading. In that game, I specifically remember him saying something, during the after game discussion, to the effect of, "When I handed out the roles, I specifically chose their names, affiliations, and powers so that nobody would have to lie about their role to save their necks." He had a hand in setting up this game. Who's to say the same thing didn't occur?

Now, granted, just because he may be wrong, doesn't mean he's scum. But it just seems like he has a bit more information about roles and allegiances than I do. Granted, I've never seen the show, but I wonder if that might explain the whole, "Tell me how well you know the show." He may have wanted to know if he could pull the wool over our eyes, cover our entire heads with a wool pillowcase, or never even put on the wolf's clothing.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #433 on Sept 13, 2007, 5:22pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 1:34pm, Roosh wrote:
I.
Have.
No.
Idea.
What.
Just.
Happened.

??? Story, how is Mad lying?
And Mad... what is he doing? (O_o) Like. Wow. I got nothing. I feel like i'm being Whooshed or something.... But he left. So i guess we don't get to hear anything till Sunday? Which really does suck. When I say I have a secret I usually only keep it 24 hours. This is just PAINFUL to wait. =(



All right, one more time:

Mad has voted for me.

His stated reasoning is as follows:

1. Early in this Day, while making the point that not every Day One is just about random voting, I referred to the fact that Mad and I both went after drainbead with reason in Asylum lane Day One.

2. In the actual Asylum Lane game, I took all the credit for the drainbead lynch and acted as though MadtheSwine had nothing to do with it.

3. Ergo, in this game, I am scum, trying to... accomplish... something... the reasoning is actually kind of fuzzy at this point.

The problem is that:

#2 is a lie. I have demonstrated this. In Asylum Lane, I repeatedly credited Mad with starting the drainbead thing, and made reference to the fact that my own suspicion of her was an offshoot of his.

(This is leaving aside the lack of connection 'twixt #s 2 and 3, and the utter illogic of the whole thing. On a purely factual basis, I did not do what Mad is claiming I did).

Simple enough?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #434 on Sept 13, 2007, 5:34pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 2:16pm, Greedy Smurf wrote:
Well this is certainly an interesting Day 1.

I'm left wondering about what is underlying the Mad/Story exchange.

Are we looking at a scum engineered argument? or two townies who have managed to push each others buttons, or as both of them would have us believe, a townie has latched onto a scum?


This is getting so frustrating to me. People are becoming so determined to puzzle out the secret motivations behind each post that they are ignoring what is actually being said. It doesn't seem to matter to anyone that Mad has completely fabricated a reason to come after me - I mean, made one up out of whole cloth. What happened to looking at and evaluating the reasons behind each player's actions? Has that completely ceased to be relevant now?


Quote:

Personally I find Mad's accusations & evidence a bit light on, but I also find Story's reaction to it a bit OTT.


OK, let's try a thought experiment.

[thought experiment]
You, Greedy Smurf are scum. I know this because in Asylum Lane, you consistently referred to me as "ST" and now you are abbreviating my name as "story." Scum!
[/thought experiment]

What is your reaction to this? What if you went back and threw out a bunch of posts demonstrating that you didn't abbreviate my name that way, and I just insisted that "yes you did, and I'll prove it... eventually." And what if everyone else in town seemed to be completely ignoring that the actual content of my accusation was a lie and focused instead on trying to figure out in front of which of us the wine was sitting? Mightn't you get a bit... frustrated?



Quote:

I'm not sure what I think but I will certainly be marking both Mad and Story down as people to keep an eye on. So to sort of make it official-like FOS Mad, FOS Story


And look how convenient that is for MadtheSwine. Make up an accusation out of nowhere and throw it at a townie. When I do absolutely nothing but defend myself against that accusation, I get made a "person of interest" for the future. Because I took umbrage at having another player blatantly misrepresent my actions in another game.

I think I'm done with this. I feel like I'm in bizarro-Mafia-land, where a player can flat out lie in the course of voting for another player, and everyone else in town doesn't even seem particularly interested in evaluating the literal truth of the accusations (let alone the validity of their interpretation).

My vote stands - lynch all liars, and all that jazz.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #435 on Sept 13, 2007, 6:32pm »
[Quote]

Well.. I apologize for arriving late to the party but life has taken an unexpected turn on the busy rollercoaster. Things have calmed down (that I got a nudge from Naf!) and I've arrived. It'll take me a bit of time to sort through the 15 pages of discussion but I'm up to a challenge! :)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #436 on Sept 13, 2007, 7:31pm »
[Quote]

I can't believe I have just read through the entire Day 1 of the Asylum game to get some background on MadtheSwine vs Storyteller >:(

I will post something later when my thoughts are in order.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #437 on Sept 13, 2007, 9:43pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 1:20pm, Caerie wrote:

Sept 13, 2007, 1:11pm, Roosh wrote:
No...?
These games are separate.
We should treat each game as a new one.
Or am i missing something here?


While I feel like having an extended argument about a prior game isn't of much use, it is pretty useful to be able to look at a player's past actions. It sets up a pattern for the way he or she plays. When somebody drastically changes his playing style, it might mean that person is now playing a different role from last time.

That isn't always the case, though, and I think a lot of the time the characterizations made aren't terribly accurate, but it is something to keep in mind.


While this is true in a general sense, I'm not sure if it applies in this particular situation. I don't see either of these two players changing much of anything about how they played from the last game to the next. This whole Mad/Story thing is a baffling argument that seemed to come out of left field. If someone did something like that to me I'd have no idea how I'd defend myself against it. How do you defend yourself against something that seems to have absolutely no relevance to the game that's going on right now?

For now, I'm just going to sit back and watch it unfold. I think Story is getting the best of the argument, but I'm trying to piece out motivations for why an argument this silly is even taking place to begin with. Until I figure that out, I am having a hard time thinking that this little side drama should influence my actions in any way. Ain't getting involved in something I don't understand.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #438 on Sept 13, 2007, 9:48pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 4:54pm, Rugger, Pygmy wrote:

The Harry Potter game, ~snip~

JSexton ran a Clue based game, which he posted a link to as suggested reading. In that game, I specifically remember him saying something, during the after game discussion, to the effect of, "When I handed out the roles, I specifically chose their names, affiliations, and powers so that nobody would have to lie about their role to save their necks." He had a hand in setting up this game. Who's to say the same thing didn't occur?



Yeah. The Harry Potter game was that one exception I found to the rule. But yeah. That's really a good point. So don't take my ideas now as the only thing. Please. I admit it. It's GOT LOTS OF FLAWS.
Let's get a new thing going. But at least it got people talking.

I admit it's a bad idea. I've admitted it now quite a bit.
I like my idea, but it needs work obviously. So don't worry about it right now, and we'll see if it can work later in the game.

And, I'm trying to cut back on my posts (mostly trying to respond now to accusations and such).
I promise in the future to not be as vocal. I just am feeling threatened right now. Normally, I'd lay back and look at people until i think i have something. And, well at the start of the day, I thought I had something with my ideas.
So yeah, I'll try to be less Vocal in future days. Unless I think i have another great idea. Or if my neck is on the chopping block.
Because If i'm on the chopping block, I WILL go out with as much information for the Town as possible.
"Live every day like it's your last" -Story's Rule from Mafia VI.
~~~~~

Storyteller: I have one... erm... Problem with your example.

Sept 13, 2007, 5:34pm, storyteller0910 wrote:

OK, let's try a thought experiment.

[thought experiment]
You, Greedy Smurf are scum.
I know this because in Asylum Lane, you consistently referred to me as "ST" and now you are abbreviating my name as "story." Scum!
[/thought experiment]

What is your reaction to this? What if you went back and threw out a bunch of posts demonstrating that you didn't abbreviate my name that way, and I just insisted that "yes you did, and I'll prove it... eventually." And what if everyone else in town seemed to be completely ignoring that the actual content of my accusation was a lie and focused instead on trying to figure out in front of which of us the wine was sitting? Mightn't you get a bit... frustrated?



Why did you use the example that Greedy IS scum to begin with?
I think the same example would have worked if you said "Greedy is town" but gets a baseless accusation thrown against him by another player. That might be even MORE frustrating.
--Your example makes it so Greedy is guilty, and then gets a lucky guess thrown against him and is frustrated. That's almost like saying "I AM Scum, but I'm really upset because he's using a shitty argument to call me out". (But I wouldn't expect such an odd slip from you. But still. It's a curiosity that has me puzzled).

--What i'm thinking is this: Mad might have a LEGIT reason for voting for you, but he may not want to reveal it. So perhaps this is his idea of a mad breadcrumb?
---For this though, I have to trust Mad. I don't do that right now, so I'm not going to believe him... yet. But, he maybe he has access to "information" (that some of you HATE to know about) from just last night and he's using a REALLY stupid way of showing it?

That's what I'm seeing here. But I don't know if its the case, but to me that'd be the only real justification (in a townie sense) of what Mad is trying to do. Otherwise, yeah. He looks like a crazy liar.

~anyways, I'm out till about 12am again
Peace~R
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #439 on Sept 13, 2007, 9:49pm »
[Quote]

"Ain't getting involved in something I don't understand."
-Wise Words from DrainBead.

I think we'll need to hear from Mad as to what the guay is wrong with him.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #440 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:23pm »
[Quote]

So my feelings on the MadtheSwine/Storyteller are as follows.

I read through Day 1 of the Mafia VI game and one of the main early topics of conversation (aside from random voting) was about not carrying grudges over from game to game.

Because, quite frankly, this is what it looks like to me.

As far as I can tell, MadtheSwine placed an FOS on drainbead, which Storyteller picked up and ran with it leading to a scum lynch at the end of the day.

If anyone else would like to confirm/deny this, please feel free.

I don't know whether either of them is scum, but I really dislike Meta-gaming, which I would consider this an example of.

Being honest, this does not look like a scum ploy, its more like anti-town play and as I have stated I will vote for anti-town play regardless of the affiliation if necessary.

MadtheSwine. I have read your reasoning and I don't agree with it at all.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #441 on Sept 13, 2007, 10:58pm »
[Quote]

Roosh -


Quote:

Storyteller: I have one... erm... Problem with your example.

Sept 13, 2007, 5:34pm, storyteller0910 wrote:

OK, let's try a thought experiment.

[thought experiment]
You, Greedy Smurf are scum.
I know this because in Asylum Lane, you consistently referred to me as "ST" and now you are abbreviating my name as "story." Scum!
[/thought experiment]

What is your reaction to this? What if you went back and threw out a bunch of posts demonstrating that you didn't abbreviate my name that way, and I just insisted that "yes you did, and I'll prove it... eventually." And what if everyone else in town seemed to be completely ignoring that the actual content of my accusation was a lie and focused instead on trying to figure out in front of which of us the wine was sitting? Mightn't you get a bit... frustrated?


Why did you use the example that Greedy IS scum to begin with?
I think the same example would have worked if you said "Greedy is town" but gets a baseless accusation thrown against him by another player. That might be even MORE frustrating.


You misunderstand, although on re-read I can see why. I was responding to Greedy's statement that my reaction to Mad seemed over-the-top. The idea of my thought experiment was not "imagine that you are scum." It was - imagine that I called you scum. Imagine if everything I posted within the "thought experiment" tag I simply posted, as a direct accusation of Greedy. My sense is that he (or anyone) would get as frustrated as I was.


Quote:

--What i'm thinking is this: Mad might have a LEGIT reason for voting for you, but he may not want to reveal it. So perhaps this is his idea of a mad breadcrumb?
---For this though, I have to trust Mad. I don't do that right now, so I'm not going to believe him... yet. But, he maybe he has access to "information" (that some of you HATE to know about) from just last night and he's using a REALLY stupid way of showing it?


From your perspective, this is possible, of course. From mine, it is not, because I know my own role.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #442 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:02pm »
[Quote]


Sept 13, 2007, 9:43pm, drainbead wrote:

For now, I'm just going to sit back and watch it unfold. I think Story is getting the best of the argument, but I'm trying to piece out motivations for why an argument this silly is even taking place to begin with. Until I figure that out, I am having a hard time thinking that this little side drama should influence my actions in any way. Ain't getting involved in something I don't understand.


OK, that's fair, but I need to ask - what's so difficult to dong ma? Piecing out motivations is all well and good, but it leads you down an impossible road, especially this early in the game. To me, the situation is simple:

1. MadtheSwine made an accusation against me.
2. The accusation is false.
3. MadtheSwine is either lying, or being careless with his votes.
4. Lying, particularly when one is lying in order to justify casting a vote for someone, is scummy. Carelessly voting for someone without checking to make sure your reason actually happened is only marginally less scummy. Ergo -
5. MadtheSwine is behaving in a scummy fashion, whether or not he is actually scum.

That is my position in a nutshell. Where does it become hard to dong ma?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #443 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:03pm »
[Quote]

Clarification: "dong ma" in the above post is the filter's translation of the word "under*stand"
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #444 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:14pm »
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Yeesh.

Okay, first of all--given the posting counts, I'm actually more suspicious of the top five posters who're filling 40% of these 15 pages than I am of any of the lurkers. The signal-to-noise ratio in here is crippling for those of us who can't check the game more than once or twice a day.

My vote remains on Roosh. He's spamming up the thread with longwinded, and more importantly spread-out defenses of his pet theory, and then he's jumping on lurkers a bit. Honestly, I don't feel I need to cover my objections to his theory in any length, since they've been posted--we don't know what names are good or bad. We don't even know what names are reasonably power roles, except MAYBE the captain and the doctor, and even then we might not have any reasonable clue what powers might or might not assign to them. I therefore think 90% of the names in this game are gonna be meaningless.

I'm in a mood to punish roles who seem to know too much early because I would have hit big in Sekham had I carried that to the limit, as one of our current GMs well knows, NAF. Instead, I backed down and the sucker outlived me. =P Power roles have an out in this, and honestly most power roles I'd hope would know better than to reveal too much of what little they picked up on night 0.5--they don't know nearly as much as scum if their powers are similar to the typical mafia game.

I'm also emotionally suspicious right now of MadtheSwine, but he's got a history of being a totally insane monkey-poster so I'll wait for actual evidence--his meltdowns signify nothing, and honestly should just be ignored. For the same reasons, I think storyteller should drop it--he's not in danger, it's not worth it.

dnooman's intemperate remarks are making me suspicious enough to want to put him on the watch list for toMorrow--or for toDay, if Roosh comes up with something comprehensible.

I wish I had time to hit this thread more than once per day, but the sheer volume of it is making me not want to find time. Can you guys who apparently have no other job responsiblities or lives PLEASE slow down and consolidate your posts more? If you find yourself posting more than twice in a row, you're hurting those of us with less time than you.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #445 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:26pm »
[Quote]

From my perspective, Captain Pig (MadTheSwine) made a baseless accusation against storyteller and storyteller bitchslapped him good. While I do agree with LAL (Lynch All Liars), I feel that dnooman's slip is more scummy. However, should the things change and Captain Pig becomes the vote-leader, I will gladly switch. Captain Pig, would you care to try to explain yourself? I mean actually explain, not just tell us you're going to explain.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #446 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:28pm »
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Unvote Idle Thoughts
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #447 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:31pm »
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Sept 12, 2007, 9:36am, dnooman wrote:
Anyways, my win condition does not state that I be the last one alive. I know that might come as a shock to some of you. As a matter of fact my win condition is pretty confound vanilla. What I was trying to convey, is that town has no idea who they're up against. I'm positive that I have fellow townies, mostly because if I were the only one, this would be the strangest game of mafia ever. However, not knowing how many scum there are (I know this is the norm), how many scum teams there might be (if more than one), and whether or not there are "Great Pumpkin Chia Reaver" roles makes me a bit nervous.

Maybe it's because I was a mason last game, and playing alone again feels odd, but I don't think that's it. Maybe it's because I've never played more than a few hours as a vanilla townie before. Whatever it is, I feel like I'm backed in a corner distrusting everyone. Think Dotchan in the last game, but not nearly as shiny or cute. That's my reasoning for the "every man for himself" comment, in case anybody's interested.

Vanilla townie is a very common role. You're the first one I've seen to describe it as "every man for himself". Not knowing who you can trust is one thing, deciding that it's you against the rest is another.

And your defence:

Sept 13, 2007, 2:35pm, dnooman wrote:
gorram. I really shouldn't have mentioned my personal win condition. Of all the things to keep secret, that should have been it. One little post, and I expose myself as scum, by basically saying that I'm not town. Sorry, fellow scum guys. I humped up. These townies are smart. They caught me wearing the wrong jersey, and now they know something's up. ::)

A non defence with rolleyes is not very appropriate.

I will vote dnooman
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #448 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:36pm »
[Quote]

Ok I just reread the Asylum first day too. Yeah God's MadtheSwine is being a Swine.

So now can we get back to this game. Was anything resolved in regards to setting an artificial deadline so that we all don't just blather on till the day ends with a no lynch? (Noting that I recognize myself as one of the blathers).

Thank you.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #449 on Sept 13, 2007, 11:51pm »
[Quote]

The reason I don't post much is that after reading through 3+pages of backlog my thoughts have quite effectively evaporated.

Also, while metagaming, with reliance on previous Mafia-games, can be beneficial, where does that leave those who have not been around for them? All we have is your word that so-and-so in another game acted scummy, with these clues, and since so-and-so is displaying those clues in this game, s/he must be scummy again!

That goes for the whole rehash 'twixt Mad and storyteller. It's not helpful, and by this point it just tastes like grudgewank to me.

And I agree that postcount does not equal someone's role.
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