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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1081 on Sept 19, 2007, 1:10am »
Sorry, dnooman, I don't buy it. There WAS a part of her post that I thought might be meaningful as being part of her role, but on review I decided that it wasn't that. She didn't add anything that YOU didn't already say.
That is, I believe she was using whatever terminology she felt like but, when crafting the actual claim, she modelled it after yours.
FTR, I think anyone who is still voting for her because her name is Ramiro that's a bad reason to vote for her. I WILL, however, reconsider my vote for her IF she addresses the two points I mentioned in my vote for her. Why is that being overlooked for this meta-gaming, barely-within-the-rules logic?
My vote stays with Dotchan until those points are addressed.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1083 on Sept 19, 2007, 1:20am »
Okay, we have about two days left. I think a no-lynch is terrible because we can gain a lot of potential information from a lynch. So I propose this: we limit ourselves to the candidates that currently have votes. I'd be sufficiently satisfied that, just by blind chance we're likely to have scum among those six.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1084 on Sept 19, 2007, 1:30am »
I don't believe in Masons. That's because I only ever played in games that had scum vs town, with a Cop and a Bodyguard thrown in, not very much other groups with their own secret agendas. Maybe 'believe' is the wrong word here, but that's why I was suspicious of Mad at first, although I could have explained myself better.
However, with the rest of the information provided, I do accept that there is a Mason-group of sorts in this game, although with the closed set-up that's hard to tell until it gets revealed by either a Nightkill or a lynch.
Something I wanted to get out, even though it's more than ten pages ago I first voiced my thoughts on the Masons. Well, it was post 859, for those keeping score at home.
*
I am intrigued by Cat's having been on all the bandwagons we've had so far. It could have been mere confusion, but also a scheming on the part of scum to get a townie lynched. Especially since all the proposed bandwagon-victims seem to have been cleared as Townies.
HM, thanks for posting that, I found it useful in M4. FYI, you may want to double-check the post numbers next to Diomedes on the Dotchan wagon.
Thanks for catching that. I also corrected the Cookies unvote of Dot that I missed. And of course have added what has happened since. Anytime you all want me to post an update, I will.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
I am not who I think I am. I am not who you think I am. I am who I think you think I am.{=}{/=}
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1087 on Sept 19, 2007, 2:12am »
I can't shake the idea that atarus thinks talking about the show that this game is based on is meta-gaming.
I know some of us certainly disagree about what is and isn't meta-gaming, but to discuss the show that this game is based on ... meta-gaming??? C'mon now.
On the lurking issue,by my count, in Day1 atarus has posted 18 times out of 48 total posts. Plenty of posts elsewhere to boost the ol' post count.Now 18 posts ain't really all that bad,but seems a bit low for someone so hard on lurkers.
I don't know what's so difficult with this. I don't see a problem taking someone to 13 or so votes. If someone hammers without town concensus, I'll consider that a scummy action and they'll recieve my vote first thing in the morning. I don't think there is a need to hide in a corner and bite your nails worrying about scum jumping in pushing someone over the top... If they want to expose themselves like that, great.
And considering how much we've talked about how we don't want unwanted hammering without full town approval to death in the first 24 hours, anybody that accidentally hammers a person at this point either hasn't been reading or is scum, and will be treated as such by me (and probably other people as well).
I see the pro-town point here...but to use atarus' devils advocate line of thought...what if this post was scum written. Does it read sorta like"you better not cast the 15th vote..you better not!" Campaigning for a No-lynch perhaps?
Again with the hammering. And in one breath excusing the last or next to last voter and in the other accusing "anybody that accidentally hammers a person at this point either hasn't been reading or is scum, and will be treated as such by me"
So it appears its a lose lose proposition for the 14th and 15th voters. And this leads us to the final solution of never voting anybody out. Which equals SCUM WINS.
I didn't mean to say that the final voter will always be scummy to me. I meant that, if there are 14 votes on somebody, and everybody is posting in the thread saying "alright, nobody else vote until we're sure this is the guy we want to lynch" and then like 2 hours later, somebody casts the 15th vote and then goes "dearie me, lookie what I just did! oopsie, I'm sorry guys!" THAT looks extraordinarily scummy to me.
But if everybody agrees "yeah, this is the most scummy person, let's lynch 'em" then the last votes are a-ok by me. Of course, I'm not expecting to have complete agreement overall, there's bound to be some sort of dissenting opinion.
If we get down to business fairly quickly, I'm all for not having ten days of posts to wade through. However, if noise continues and we spend more days discussing how we need to vote, I don't want to lynch somebody on day 5 when we only *actually* discussed lynching for like 12 hours.
Short Day bad for town...Long Day good. Obviously we don't wanna come down to the final minutes,though it is looking that it might. Suggesting (sorta) that we try to lynch by day 5. Not good.
Now back to what atarus has said about meta-gaming and this post...
Before we get into "OMG there's a Cult!" panic, I'd also like to point out that the opening flavor could actually apply to one River Tam, if you think about it. (For those that aren't Firefly fanatics) She was taken by Alliance and acts a bit more oddly than normal people, and doesn't remember everything that happened to her, but at her heart she's fundamentally good. So hell, maybe NAF and Kat made up a character or two that went through the same treatment as River. Maybe they're the Mason group?
Point is, we don't know all the possible alignments until people start dying, so I don't think we should be worrying about a possible Cult just yet.
Again i don't know anything about the show, other than the very limited knowledge I have gained playing here. River Tam is a character from the show? this seems inconsistent with the meta-gaming stance he took not long ago,doesn't it?
Again, I guess what I said didn't really come across too clearly. Dnooman didn't come across to me as scum, he came across to me as frustrated. And I think a frustrated scum wouldn't show his frustration to everybody in the town, instead he'd actually TRY to defend himself. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming this, but I'm hoping that comes across as clearer than what I previously said.
Not a whole lot to say about these last 2 post concerning dnoo,they just seemed a bit strange to me.
I get the feeling that atarus is playing scum well...never got on the bandwagons(except mine...Did he start it I wonder?)..yet at the same time sorta FOSed the people that were being bandwagoned trying to nudge everyone towards a lynch. (except I didn't notice that with Dotchan)maybe cause Dotchan is scum or because atarus was gone for that time period.)
Please note atarus, that I was not on the Roosh wagon.
Thanks. As I said, it was early in the morning and I thought I saw a vote for Roosh by you while I was looking back. Obviously, I was wrong! *scratches your name off list*
You wont use your knowledge of the show to clarify or at least acknowledge a role-claim is possible...I don't think that is metagamimg whatsoever...i think not doing it is scummy.
If it was a show we are all familiar with than I doubt you would hesitate to share knowledge some of us may have forgotten.
Sounds like you want to keep your upperhand by not giving away info that by all accounts should be public knowledge.
That said,along with your premature lynch the lurkers post, I will unvote Dotchan, and vote atarus
First, I don't remember doing a lynch the lurkers post. I'll look back and see if I said something in that vein, because just because I don't remember it doesn't mean I didn't do it. (I blame old age.)
Now, NAF has said that there's at least one person that isn't on the list of Firefly characters. Dotchan's Ramiro claim is an example of this. So I don't think it's sensible to be meta-gaming about who could be what, and if such and such role claim is supported by the Firefly universe. NAF's also said somewhere that you don't have to be a fan to play in this game, so fanatic fan stuff is extraneous knowledge that could possibly help, but could also possibly muddy the waters (as I believe it's done considering all the discussions so far toDay).
Look at the Chia Bingo Panic(tm) from Asylum Lane. Chia Bingo Manager doesn't have any place in that theme, and yet it was still there. What if my role in this game is "Dancing Bard from Oklahoma"? It's not, but what if it was? It doesn't fit in the Firefly theme, but it's still a possibility. But if a fanatic of Firefly goes "Well, Dancing Bard of Oklahoma was never in anything that has to do with Firefly, obviously he's making this up. Lynch him!" And then everybody lynches said person based on their role name, not whether or not they've been acting scummy.
Point is, I'm trying to judge people on their actions in the game, not whether or not their name claim is a verifiable claim or not. If person X is acting scummy, be suspicious of them, even if they claim a person from the Firefly universe or a person that's not in the Firefly universe.
I'm not against using my knowledge entirely, as I have said certain things like in this post. I just don't want to have my knowledge affect my game judgment. I voted for you because I thought you were scummy. I unvoted you not because you claimed Hector Whatshisname as your name, but because you claimed mason. I was suspicious of dotchan not because she claimed Ramiro as her name, but because of her actions when she claimed.
I'm not trying to be a Gollum and going "preciouuuus knowledge, myyyyyyy knowledge" and hoarding what I know.
And I'd like to note that, until Cookies' (I think it was Cookies) clarification of who Hector Whatshisname was, I hadn't remembered who he was. So even a Firefly fanatic can have information slip their minds.
Please note atarus, that I was not on the Roosh wagon.
Thanks. As I said, it was early in the morning and I thought I saw a vote for Roosh by you while I was looking back. Obviously, I was wrong! *scratches your name off list*
You wont use your knowledge of the show to clarify or at least acknowledge a role-claim is possible...I don't think that is metagamimg whatsoever...i think not doing it is scummy.
If it was a show we are all familiar with than I doubt you would hesitate to share knowledge some of us may have forgotten.
Sounds like you want to keep your upperhand by not giving away info that by all accounts should be public knowledge.
That said,along with your premature lynch the lurkers post, I will unvote Dotchan, and vote atarus
First, I don't remember doing a lynch the lurkers post. I'll look back and see if I said something in that vein, because just because I don't remember it doesn't mean I didn't do it. (I blame old age.)
Now, NAF has said that there's at least one person that isn't on the list of Firefly characters. Dotchan's Ramiro claim is an example of this. So I don't think it's sensible to be meta-gaming about who could be what, and if such and such role claim is supported by the Firefly universe. NAF's also said somewhere that you don't have to be a fan to play in this game, so fanatic fan stuff is extraneous knowledge that could possibly help, but could also possibly muddy the waters (as I believe it's done considering all the discussions so far toDay).
Look at the Chia Bingo Panic(tm) from Asylum Lane. Chia Bingo Manager doesn't have any place in that theme, and yet it was still there. What if my role in this game is "Dancing Bard from Oklahoma"? It's not, but what if it was? It doesn't fit in the Firefly theme, but it's still a possibility. But if a fanatic of Firefly goes "Well, Dancing Bard of Oklahoma was never in anything that has to do with Firefly, obviously he's making this up. Lynch him!" And then everybody lynches said person based on their role name, not whether or not they've been acting scummy.
Point is, I'm trying to judge people on their actions in the game, not whether or not their name claim is a verifiable claim or not. If person X is acting scummy, be suspicious of them, even if they claim a person from the Firefly universe or a person that's not in the Firefly universe.
I'm not against using my knowledge entirely, as I have said certain things like in this post. I just don't want to have my knowledge affect my game judgment. I voted for you because I thought you were scummy. I unvoted you not because you claimed Hector Whatshisname as your name, but because you claimed mason. I was suspicious of dotchan not because she claimed Ramiro as her name, but because of her actions when she claimed.
I'm not trying to be a Gollum and going "preciouuuus knowledge, myyyyyyy knowledge" and hoarding what I know.
And I'd like to note that, until Cookies' (I think it was Cookies) clarification of who Hector Whatshisname was, I hadn't remembered who he was. So even a Firefly fanatic can have information slip their minds.
I am sorry ..you didn't make the initial Lynch the lurkers post ,but you did defend it pretty staunchly,I should have specified that.
As far as Chia Bingo Manager in Asylum Lane,as far as I know,there isn't a show that that game was based on...this being a real show that Kat and Naf seem to like an awful lot I would expect every role in the game to be one from the show. So if someone claims to be a Dancing Bard, I will gladly vote to lynch him if those familiar with the show say there aint no such thing. As would most others I expect.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1090 on Sept 19, 2007, 2:53am »
I'm trying to make sense of how this day has gone. Trying to decide who is more likely to be scum--those voting on the bandwagons, or those pushing them. Each one has been driven by logic that I thought was good at the time, except for the one on dotchan...and unfortunately at that point I was the one who came up with the additional reasoning to back it up. All I can surmise at this point is that the scum is doing an excellent job of staying hidden.
So I went back and looked at my Day. Looked at people I'd placed an FOS on. Looked at people I'd considered voting for and didn't. And I found something. I found someone who I FOSed early on, for voting someone whose actions were equally as likely to make them scum or town, based on a silly argument over what "majority" meant. And in analyzing this person's voting records, I see that he was a late vote on almost every bandwagon. He was a late vote on dnooman. He was a late vote on Mad. He was a late vote on dotchan. And now it looks like he's trying to get a bandwagon going for CatInASuit.
Okay, we have about two days left. I think a no-lynch is terrible because we can gain a lot of potential information from a lynch. So I propose this: we limit ourselves to the candidates that currently have votes. I'd be sufficiently satisfied that, just by blind chance we're likely to have scum among those six.
Spaceman Spiff, your counting is off. There are seven people with votes against them.
I agree with trying to limit it to these people (even though I am one of them )
I would ask that everyone tries to vote for one of these people if only so we do have a lynch at the end of the day.
I am still voting for dotchan because of, what I consider to be, her slip concerning the crew, and that her descriptions of being a townie does not ring right with me and what I know. Also the fact she is the first allegedly vanilla townie, that cannot be verified by any means, especially in a themed game. I will admit a chunk of it is also because of the meta possiblilities concerning character names.
In terms of bandwagons, yes, I have been on all of them and will probably be on several more. I cannot argue against that, but if I do see something I will go after it until I am satisfied.
<snip>I see that he was a late vote on almost every bandwagon. He was a late vote on dnooman. He was a late vote on Mad. He was a late vote on dotchan. And now it looks like he's trying to get a bandwagon going for CatInASuit.
[colorBlue]vote pygmyrugger[/color]
I don't even know how to dignify this train of thought with a response, but I'll try.
First, you're using the fact that I was a "late" vote in "almost every bandwagon". My vote for dotchan was the only one I'd qualify in that manner. That vote, was, in fact, intended to help the town avoid a no lynch today.
Second, if you'll please note that my vote for Mad was also unvoted in the very same post I made the vote. I wanted that vote to be on record, because of my suspicion of the way the claim was made. I fail to see how that can be considered a "late" vote in any way.
Third, how can you FoS me for having late votes, and conclude your argument by stating that you find it suspicious now that I'm voting "early"? I simply don't understand.
I'm going to look up the context of my dnooman vote, as I don't remember it at this time.
Ok, I found it. I think we have a different definition of "late vote" I was the seventh person to vote for dnoo. That's less than half of the majority, and less than a quarter of the town. When the heck do you expect me to vote? In fact, discounting my vote for Mad (for reasons stated in my previous post), my other three votes have been "early", "mid early", and "mid", to majority.
It seems to me you're reaching here, and using me as a scape goat. The only reason I can think of is that, since it has been proposed that we focus on those that have votes on them right now, you're a scum, and one of your scum buddies is also in that group of six (seven?), and you're trying to draw attention away from the lot of them.
Look, all I know from my role PM is that there are two factions, Crew and Alliance, and I'm Crew. I don't know what other factions there may or may not be out there, so I hedged my bet a bit. (Plus I was thinking about the wording Roosh's Inara claim.)
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 40 Location: where I can't stand Karma: 1 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1095 on Sept 19, 2007, 3:49am »
Okay, I'm changing my vote.
I'm going for Diomedes. I started to analyze his posts but didn't get to all of them. There have been various things he's done throughout the thread that are scummy, and other people have even voted based on those. So this isn't the only reason for my vote, its just one I found, based on these quotes (all Diomedes):
Quote:
1.575 - [on Roosh] However, I've voiced my opinion before that he doesn't seem scummy to me, and he's returned the favor. Somewhat optimistically, perhaps, I'm going to lay him aside as a scum candidate for now.
1.581 - Oh, I'm wary of it, as well. However, I don't expect Roosh to last very long, and for right now, I'm hoping he doesn't turn out scum; which might make me look like scum. While I know that winning or losing has nothing to do with me being alive at the end, one does have a certain sense of self preservation in these things.
1.611- As far as the whole Alignment thing goes, well, I've already said my alignment is that of Crew. I'm not a power role, however, so make of that as you will. If this game was set up with the Crew being the Mafia (not something that woulda been entirely unexpected) , then NAF and Kat sure as heck forgot to invite me to the Mob-party.
1.659- *Plus*, my alignment is Crew, and I'm seeking the d=elimination of the Alliance. What sense would it make to have the good guys be referred to as "Alliance"?
1.740 ...I'm totally one of the overeager n00bs you were referring to.
My opinion is that scum are more likely to be agreeable than argumentative on Day 1. They're also seeking to make people like them instead of suspect them. Diomedes is doing these things (and SS-BlaM even warned him after the first quoted part).
He's also pretty adamant about his alignment, which seems odd. No need to tell us three times (I ran out of time looking for the third, which he says he already made) since we ought to expect you were town (even while suspecting everyone).
You may be an overeager n00b, but that doesn't mean you're not scum.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1096 on Sept 19, 2007, 4:06am »
I also think we should try and concentrate on the vote-getters we currently have. It just seems like the safest move.
Would the list include Pygmy now?
Are we capable of a grass-roots movement toward selecting someone out of this short list, or do we need to first come to a consensus that should pick someone from the list, and then come to a consensus as to which person to pick?
*bangs head on desk*
atarus: I confirmed that Hector Sanchez was in the canon, but not in a way that divulged the identity of the Sanchez Brothers, because at the time that I was posting my canon confirmations, Mad hadn't yet provided the "brother" part, and I did not feel comfortable possibly quantifying a potential mason group in such a manner, which I believe was why Mad was hesitant in his claim at first.
In support of atarus' point that canon knowledge can either help or hinder, I have one other canon observation to make regarding the Sanchez Brothers, and everyone can decide for themselves what they want to do with the information.
I can't find a clear cite as to how many brothers there are. The only references I personally recall in the show/movie are the vaguely unquanified (more than one) "Sanchez Brothers". But I did find some fan-fic stating that there were 3 Sanchez Brothers.
I don't really know what to make of it all, but my gut hypothesis is to give Mad at least some benefit of the doubt. I will always assume that there are other players who know the show better than I do, and I will always assume that at least one of those players is scum.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1097 on Sept 19, 2007, 4:09am »
Actually, with drainbead's vote against pygmy rugger, we're up to 8. For right now, I don't like the vote against dot, and I sure as guay don't like the vote against me. I'm not seeing a particularly strong reason to vote for any of the other suspects over the others, but I'll play ball.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1098 on Sept 19, 2007, 4:11am »
:sigh: I'm really pro-Diomedes, (which may bite me in the ass, but that's why i'm mentioning it now. I'll take the risk of association). I will not support a lynching of him. But I've already said so much on the matter, that if you don't believe it, then that's fine. But I'm really thinking the kid's Overeager Townie rather than Scum mainly though due to his Night .5 postings. Since then, I've always written him off as very Pro-Town. But if you are seeing things contrary, then more power to you all. But i am really not quite seeing it, because of my initial views of the guy. To me, he inadvertently Claimed before even Dnoo, which is why i feel so trusting towards the guy. If anyone can refute it, then by all means, i'm willing to change my mind. But his speech on NIght .5 is what holds me back and says the newbie is Townie.
Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"
Some people call me the space cowboy, Yeah... Some call me the gangster of Love....
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1100 on Sept 19, 2007, 4:19am »
Oh, I should add that I think we should take our current list, see which candidate can garner the most votes, and then just agree to lynch that person. It really feels like we only have about 20 of the 28 potential votes participating, so we almost certainly won't get a lynch without artificially manipulating the process. Shall we put tomorrow as a deadline, say 1800 board time(CST)?
So, all we know is our own role, that some people sha other people, and what our win condition is right? There may be more than one group of "town" and more than one group of "scum". If there are numerous win conditions, couldn't we end up with a situation where "an enemy of my enemy is my friend, but also an enemy of mine"? I'm assuming that there will be at least some type of good guys versus bag guys element to the game (that is the point of the game isn't it?), or is this version more of an "every man for him/her self"? I guess you could divide us into killers and non-killers, but I'm not sure that would help any of us get our win condition. Also, I have no problem believing that there could be some sort of gray area 'twixt the two as well.
I'm corn-fused.
I'm a little cornfused, as well. From the note about the game, however, it almost sounds like as if there are scum (in the form of Alliance spies), townies(passengers onn the shift), and then townie power roles (I'm guessing crewmembers, perhaps paassing shepherds or Cortesans, etc.), who may have a seperate win condition all to themselves. So... all the power roles become like the Non-Believers in Idle's game?
Diomedes calls the scum Alliance spies. Says the townies are passengers.
Any other crewpeople see anything wrong with this?
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
Hey, guess who else seems to be confused about who the town are, and are addressing the Alliance Citizens as "your group"?
Am I missing something here? NAF has already said that Alliance Citizens are pro-good/town, so of course I'm going to refer to them as on the side of my own now. What the heck are you on about? Actually, what the heck are you on?
Diomedes calls the scum Alliance spies. Says the townies are passengers.
Any other crewpeople see anything wrong with this?
Vote Diomedes
Ahh, yes. I knew that post was going to bite me in the tokhes. Now that it's been brought up, I don't hold much hope that people will start badnwagonning me (with good reason) unless I.... ::cue dramatic music that we've heard far too much toDay:: ROLECLAIM!
See, back then, I didn't know exactly how I was supposed to hide myself amongst the great horde of normal townies, so I supposed that being loud and talkative, I could hide myself in plain sight. Anyways, I'm a pro-town power role, Mr. Universe. I'm allowed to watch the actions of one player each night, see what they did.
Zeroth night, I checked out Hal. Some role blocker must have targeted me, as all I got were fuzzy screens.
If you guys still feel the need to lynch my butt, please send Lenore with me out the hatches.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}