M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
A clarification...since we humped up the role PM's. In your role PM's where it says "win condition all Alliance members dead" Alliance=scum. If it said you were an "Alliance Citizen" Alliance DOES NOT EQUAL scum, but rather town. My apologies for any unintended confusion this may have caused.
unvote dnooman
Gah, now I don't know what to think. I believed/believe dnooman but based on what my win conditions are, he had to be dead no matter if he was good or bad Alliance. But now I read that's not the case.
No, we're thinking this because: (1) we're pretty sure Inara is in the game; and (2) No one else has yet said, "no, Roosh is lying, I am Inara."
I think she's saying: How do we know he's not really Inara but that Inara is scum with a name? Why should we assume they don't have names just because he told us they didn't?
Ooh, a good point, and explains why he would have come up with his crazy theory--if he's a scum with a name that everyone is going to assume is a "good guy," he can name-claim and get townie cred. That, combined with his supposed latent power that offers a built-in excuse for why he's not being nightkilled, makes me lean toward thinking Roosh is scum again.
unvote MadTheSwine. I'm going to have to think about this some more. Right now I'm trying to decide 'twixt Mad and Roosh again. I just got such scummy vibes from both of them...
Ooh, a good point, and explains why he would have come up with his crazy theory--if he's a scum with a name that everyone is going to assume is a "good guy," he can name-claim and get townie cred. That, combined with his supposed latent power that offers a built-in excuse for why he's not being nightkilled, makes me lean toward thinking Roosh is scum again.
OK, I'll just come out and say it: if Inara is scum - and specifically if Inara is Alliance of all things - then I will eat a water buffalo. There is absolutely no point to making a Firefly themed game and then aligning Inara against, say, Mal and Zoe (or are we to imagine that Mal and Zoe are also Alliance-aligned?), unless you are deliberately trying to screw up your players.
Absent a counterclaim, I will provisionally accept that Roosh is who he says he is, and assume that if he is who he says he is, he is pro-Crew. I can't understand doing otherwise.
I think she's saying: How do we know he's not really Inara but that Inara is scum with a name? Why should we assume they don't have names just because he told us they didn't?
I fear trying to go through all of Roosh's posts if I don't have to, but does anyone have, offhand, a place where Roosh stated scum didn't have real names? I mean, other than just suggested it as a possibility?
I'm not saying he did, I'm not saying he didn't. I'm just lazy, and I'm trying to figure out how reasonable the claims of people still against him are. If nobody knows, I'll dig through the War & Peace which is Roosh's post history.
You raise a good question here, so I went back to look. Roosh didn't come up with his epic idea until Page 9, so it wasn't that tough to go back (but I remembered that from re-reading several pages of the game once before, thankfully). Here are a few relevant quotes.
Roosh, page 9, #241:
Quote:
Fanatics, can you think of at least 20 people from the FF series that are famous enough to be in this game? Good/Bad/Neutral? Because if you can think it, they probably ARE in here. That's the key thing. We are each a Role. We are each a single person in the FF universe. Scum i'm not sure. Maybe there are villains in this so called "alliance", or maybe they're just "reavers" or some generic name. If so, then they just got caught with their pants down.
Same post, later on:
Quote:
Because the first thing scum will do if they're put up against the wall, is they're gonna have to FAKE a role-claim. So if they pick "steve the Pirate", and you realize wait, a min. I'm Steve the Pirate, THEN SPEAK UP! That way we'll know we've got a 50-50 shot of scum there (Note, scum may try to do this too, just going, hey, I'm Steve the Pirate, that guy is a liar! ala Dr. Pygmy last game) But at this stage of the game there are 28 of us. I think there's more town obv. than anti-town. So we can afford these 1-1 trades right NOW. Scum can't.
Roosh, post 253, page 9:
Quote:
Cuz Scum's not gonna know which one to claim, while townies can easily be confident in claiming their names. So even if ambiguity exists, the chances are slim due to the high chances of crossovers of accidentally naming an existing Townie.
Roosh, post 259, page 9:
Quote:
WHAT?? We all have names. Names from the show. I don't see how that blindly follows a fanatic.
Post 275, page 10:
Quote:
See. I want to believe that they're not. That scum are given names like "Reaver 1-3 or Alliance memeber" and just that.
Quote:
I guess the way I saw it as, no one CAN just say "I'm Bob with teh Crew". I'm thinking all the people are one of those 33. With scum maybe getting a name like "The Evil Bounty Hunter or something Jubal" And so rather than just reveal "hey guys I'm jubal!"
I think that's enough for now. So. Roosh seems to either think that the scum have generic names or obviously bad names, so that they can't name-claim. He never really came out and said that he knew his theory about names to be true, just that he expected it to be because of the flavor of the game.I don't necessarily think that's a point in favor of Roosh being scum, because I don't think it's true. If that were the case, it would have been a game-breakingly silly thing for our mods to have done.
OK, I'll just come out and say it: if Inara is scum - and specifically if Inara is Alliance of all things - then I will eat a water buffalo. There is absolutely no point to making a Firefly themed game and then aligning Inara against, say, Mal and Zoe (or are we to imagine that Mal and Zoe are also Alliance-aligned?), unless you are deliberately trying to screw up your players.
Absent a counterclaim, I will provisionally accept that Roosh is who he says he is, and assume that if he is who he says he is, he is pro-Crew. I can't understand doing otherwise.
This is interesting and yielded unexpected results. I'm leaning more towards that too, although I have no idea who these characters are, I would take the word of those who know them. I was saying what I thought sinjin was saying, in that post, not what I believed, myself.
But it's interesting that Drain Bead seemed to jump on it really fast.
Well, we're halfway through our alloted time for the first Day, or thereabouts. The leading vote-getter has, what, three votes left on him? We really need some votes to start flowing in from the lurker/low post-crowd pretty soon if we're going to get enough of a train to hammer someone. The more active posters (myself included, I think) seem to be running in circles here (myself included, definitely).
OK, I'll just come out and say it: if Inara is scum - and specifically if Inara is Alliance of all things - then I will eat a water buffalo. There is absolutely no point to making a Firefly themed game and then aligning Inara against, say, Mal and Zoe (or are we to imagine that Mal and Zoe are also Alliance-aligned?), unless you are deliberately trying to screw up your players.
Absent a counterclaim, I will provisionally accept that Roosh is who he says he is, and assume that if he is who he says he is, he is pro-Crew. I can't understand doing otherwise.
This is interesting and yielded unexpected results. I'm leaning more towards that too, although I have no idea who these characters are, I would take the word of those who know them. I was saying what I thought sinjin was saying, in that post, not what I believed, myself.
But it's interesting that Drain Bead seemed to jump on it really fast.
Quick lesson:
Mal (the Captain of Serenity) and Zoe (his first mate) were both part of a revolution against the Alliance, which is the dominant force in the 'verse (think the Empire in Star Trek, but with less Force choking and more beaurocrats). The rebellion was quashed, and Mal - who was an officer in the Rebel army - lost a ton of men in one of the decisive battles. Now he and Zoe survive and semi-accept the Alliance's reign; they are not in open rebellion, but as characters they loathe the Alliance.
Inara is a Companion (read: prostitute) who travels on Serenity with the rest of the Crew. She is in love with Mal and he with her, although they never get much past the yelling and shouting part of love.
OK, I'll just come out and say it: if Inara is scum - and specifically if Inara is Alliance of all things - then I will eat a water buffalo. There is absolutely no point to making a Firefly themed game and then aligning Inara against, say, Mal and Zoe (or are we to imagine that Mal and Zoe are also Alliance-aligned?), unless you are deliberately trying to screw up your players.
Absent a counterclaim, I will provisionally accept that Roosh is who he says he is, and assume that if he is who he says he is, he is pro-Crew. I can't understand doing otherwise.
This is interesting and yielded unexpected results. I'm leaning more towards that too, although I have no idea who these characters are, I would take the word of those who know them. I was saying what I thought sinjin was saying, in that post, not what I believed, myself.
But it's interesting that Drain Bead seemed to jump on it really fast.
I guess my thoughts are that if the mods split the roles on good vs. evil, and gave the scum the bad guys and the crew the good guys, the game would be broken if everyone mass-claimed. I'm not sure if I'm out-thinking the mods, but I was thinking earlier about designing a BSG-related game, and part of the issues I was having (in my own head) is making it so that a mass-claim wouldn't win the game for the Fleet. So I'd imagine that the mods, in designing this game, have thought about that and taken steps to make it so that it's not that simple.
Plus, I've always thought that Roosh seems scummy. Maybe I'm trying too hard to get the facts to fit the conclusion I've come up with in my head. That's why right now I'm not voting for anyone, because both of my votes past dnooman were somewhat emotional in the end.
The big problem with that idea, Drainbead, is that it still defeats the purpose of the themed game. It could happen, but not with the good guys obviously called "Crew" and the bad guys called "Alliance". NAF and Kat could have used Town and Scum as the alignments, and had the scum be the protagonists of the show, but they picked to use an identifying marker as the alignment.
Sign me up for half of storyteller's yak if I'm wrong.
Ok first I’d like all of you to ask yourselves a couple of questions;
1) Why do I believe that scum must have obviously bad show names or no names at all? Who stuck that nugget in my brain ? (Hint points to Roosh). Then remember dnooman was a bad guy and a member of the alliance on the show he is crew in the game.
2) Why do I believe that people with good names in the show must be good people in the game? (Hint points to story) And please recall the Harry Potter mafia game mentioned 1000 pages ago before you answer. And recall that good people can turn into reavers on the show.
3) Do I really think NAF and Kat are that stupid to create a game that can be broken so easily?
4) Why did Roosh claim Inara when he was going down the toilet?
a. He’s a total doof and that’s his real game-name and she is good and he’s been stinking up the game with his crapola.
b. He’s got a name other than Inara but choose it because it’s one of the possible power roles and won’t be counter-claimed on day one.
c. His name is Inara and she’s been taken over to the dark-side and he’s scum.
5) Why were so many smart mafia players like story and CatInASuit so eager to unvote Roosh after he name-claimed and before anybody even had a chance to counter-claim?
6) If all you have to do is name-claim when you’re under the gun what’s to stop the scum from name-claiming all the possible power roles or just using their bad guy names and claiming they’ve seen the light? (remember dnooman) Scum win.
And finally
7) Why am I so adamant about all of this.
a. Before he figured out what was wrong with his stance to take out dnooman and all his kin (prodded by story to recant btw) he was essentially declaring war on crew, which includes me and I know we are the white hats in this space opera.
b. My BSoMeter is pegged so hard it’s about to fall off.
c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his comeout are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. Yeah so do I, very minor, but I’m from a town and I am still crew. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.
WOW I’m becoming Roosh. Must be the reavers. I tried to be brief the last time because I thought the circular logic that is Roosh was clear. Now I’ve spelled it all out.
1) Why do I believe that scum must have obviously bad show names or no names at all? Who stuck that nugget in my brain ? (Hint points to Roosh). Then remember dnooman was a bad guy and a member of the alliance on the show he is crew in the game.
Yes, Roosh stuck that nugget in your brain. But he did it as a guess. This is the first Day, we don't have any concrete information other than our role PMs. Everything that's said is conjecture.
2) Why do I believe that people with good names in the show must be good people in the game? (Hint points to story) And please recall the Harry Potter mafia game mentioned 1000 pages ago before you answer. And recall that good people can turn into reavers on the show.
Because the good alignment is Crew, and the bad Alignment is Alliance. Real simple answer, there.
3) Do I really think NAF and Kat are that stupid to create a game that can be broken so easily?
That strategy ain't workin' here, is it? It requires everyone to be willing to chip in, and obviously there are people who aren't.
4) Why did Roosh claim Inara when he was going down the toilet?
a. He’s a total doof and that’s his real game-name and she is good and he’s been stinking up the game with his crapola.
b. He’s got a name other than Inara but choose it because it’s one of the possible power roles and won’t be counter-claimed on day one.
c. His name is Inara and she’s been taken over to the dark-side and he’s scum.
Answer C is nonsense. You think the scum would use a recruitment the first night? While ther may be Reavers as an expanding cult, I think that until we see some evidence of them, it's not wise to assume that as a more likely answer than A. As for B, well, someone has the name Inara, I'm sure. If they don't counterclaim now, they eventually will. Our goal is to kill all scum before we die. If he's not Inara, I'm the real Inara will be killed or will speak up before we get to Lynch or Lose. Your option B is possible, but no more possible than A, and it seems like a poor strategy to me, as it eventually gives up the character.
5) Why were so many smart mafia players like story and CatInASuit so eager to unvote Roosh after he name-claimed and before anybody even had a chance to counter-claim?
Because the smart players understand what I just said as a response to question 4. Trust me, if someone counterclaimed, I bet story and CatInaSuit would revote him. It's not that hard.
6) If all you have to do is name-claim when you’re under the gun what’s to stop the scum from name-claiming all the possible power roles or just using their bad guy names and claiming they’ve seen the light? (remember dnooman) Scum win.
Scum name claiming will produce counterclaims. Trading townies for scum, one for one, won't keep the scum in business for long. As for dnooman's claim... well, go watch "The Train Job". You'll understand while the character name is a decent 'Alliance citizen' name.
And finally
7) Why am I so adamant about all of this. Ahh... the question of the evening. I won't even try to answer this one. Other than maybe you're confused, and maybe you're scummy, but whatever case, you're not using the best logic.
WOW I’m becoming Roosh. Must be the reavers. [/quote]
Just as a point to others reading this what Diomedes thinks I think is not what I was suggesting in regards to 4c:
Quote:
Answer C is nonsense. You think the scum would use a recruitment the first night?
I was thinking more in the line that Inara had been taken over by reavers or bad guys who stick needles in your brain or who the guay knows what before the game started. So that Roosh/Inara were scum to begin with.
Everyone, sorry for pissing a lot of you off and being a distraction. Please know that it is only my own stupidity and utter ineptness at this game, not malice or anything else. I'm not cut out for this game and please accept my apologies that it took so long to realize it.
I was thinking more in the line that Inara had been taken over by reavers or bad guys who stick needles in your brain or who the guay knows what before the game started. So that Roosh/Inara were scum to begin with.
Sorry. That makes a little more sense, but I still don't see the set-up of a game being messed like this. When we start eliminating more people, and getting closer to mid-game or end-game, then I think we'll be getting closer to a time where we can start doubting if the names have any correlation to sides.
However, if we get down to game's end, and it's me, you, and Roosh... and Mal, Zoe, Kaylee et. al have all turned out to be town, and Jubal Early was scum... well, I'll go with Inara over nothing, you know?
On the other hand, if the roles seem pretty evenly divvied up 'twixt what makes sense according to the show, and what doesn't... then yeah, I'll go with a theory that Kat and Naf put all the names in a randomizer to decide who's town and who's scum, and then wrote some weird fanfic to explain it all.
Unless is was Inara/Kaylee/Diomedes slash fanfic. I'd be okay with that.
I might have missed a few FoSes here and there because some people weren't explicit about voicing suspicions (I know I didn't log a "Fingernail of Minor Suspicion" or whatever from somebody), but this is what the fracas looked like from someone following along from the Peanut Gallery.
c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his comeout are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. Yeah so do I, very minor, but I’m from a town and I am still crew. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.
Maybe it's the beers, but I'm finding it gorram near impossible to figure out what you mean by this. I think it's your usage of "crew" and "town," which seem to mean both the same and different things depending on where you use them. Can you rephrase?
c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his comeout are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. Yeah so do I, very minor, but I’m from a town and I am still crew. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.
Maybe it's the beers, but I'm finding it gorram near impossible to figure out what you mean by this. I think it's your usage of "crew" and "town," which seem to mean both the same and different things depending on where you use them. Can you rephrase?
I think she's using town in it's proper sense, sorta the sense of "landbound"... Inara is a nomad, while the Sheriff stays in one place.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 98 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #684 on Sept 15, 2007, 10:06am »
OK, sinjin, here's my question:
You are making a very assertive and passionate argument that there is a possibility that Roosh is lying, or scum-aligned. And the only problem is that no one is denying that possibility.
I mean, I figure there's a chance Roosh is lying, and the real Inara either hasn't seen his claim yet or has chosen not to counterclaim yet.
And there's a chance, a much smaller chance, that Inara is not in the game at all, and a scummy Roosh has lucked upon the one major role that isn't in the show.
And there's a chance - I consider it a very small chance, but there is a chance - that Roosh IS Inara, but is Alliance-aligned or part of some other scum group.
All of these things are possible.
But none of us can possibly be sure yet. Except you. You seem very sure. You seem to want to lynchRoosh in spite of his claim.
And that makes no sense to me. Because in a situation where there is a question, not lynching is revocable at a moment's notice; if evidence arises to suggest that Roosh is lying or scum-aligned, we can lynch him at any moment. Our Unvotes don't keep him alive for all eternity - just for as long as we have reason to believe he may be a pro-town power role.
But your way - lynching him - is irrevocable. If he's lying, yes, we'd catch scum - but we'll catch him if he's lying anyway, sooner or later. If he's not, then we've wasted a lynch - on a town power role no less!
The rest of us are choosing an option - not lynching - consistent with what we do and do not know. You seem to be choosing an option based on the assumption that Roosh is either lying or scum-aligned - something the rest of us can't know either way, yet. What makes you so sure? And why do you insist on acting as if unvoting Roosh for the moment is equivalent to unreservedly accepting his role claim forever and ever amen?
I see only two possible reasons:
(1) You have decided in your own mind that Roosh is scum, and are unwilling to consider evidence that clashes with your predeveloped theory.
(2) You have access to some sort of information that we don't.
If it's the latter, then you are acting on non-public information in an effort to force an artificial outcome - the definition of "scummy" in my mind.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 34 Location: Under Zoe's thumb Karma: 2 [ Exalt | Smite ]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #685 on Sept 15, 2007, 10:12am »
A thought occurs. If there is some sort of unknown party besides the traditional scum that needs me to be dead, I really managed to F myself in the A. That is, if (#scum + #other group) > (#crew), which I doubt.
Sorry if I'm being dense here, but what does everyone else think about what kinds of teams might be out there? I'm not even thinking about SK type roles, or any other individual role, and if there's a mason-like contingent I'm hoping that they're town.
Are we of one mind that there are only two main teams (Alliance bad guys, and various good guys)?
A thought occurs. If there is some sort of unknown party besides the traditional scum that needs me to be dead, I really managed to F myself in the A. That is, if (#scum + #other group) > (#crew), which I doubt.
Sorry if I'm being dense here, but what does everyone else think about what kinds of teams might be out there? I'm not even thinking about SK type roles, or any other individual role, and if there's a mason-like contingent I'm hoping that they're town.
Are we of one mind that there are only two main teams (Alliance bad guys, and various good guys)?
I've spent a lot of time trying to imagine various set-ups, but with the information that we have so far into the nature of the game and the nature of the theme, the best possibility for a real third party (not masons, who seem to be just another town power role in msot cases) would be Reavers. Or, more likely a single Reaver to start, but who acts as a serial killer, and has a chance at infecting people instead of killing them. If # Reavers >town+scum, Reavers win? How's that sound?
Otherwise, there's an entire structure of black marketeering and mercenary-ing that goes on in the 'verse... but I don't see how either one could create a seperate faction.
Maybe it's the beers, but I'm finding it gorram near impossible to figure out what you mean by this. I think it's your usage of "crew" and "town," which seem to mean both the same and different things depending on where you use them. Can you rephrase?
I think she's using town in it's proper sense, sorta the sense of "landbound"... Inara is a nomad, while the Sheriff stays in one place.
Okay. Another situation in which knowing the show may have come in handy. I get the feeling I'll have a lot of those before this game is through.
A thought occurs. If there is some sort of unknown party besides the traditional scum that needs me to be dead, I really managed to F myself in the A. That is, if (#scum + #other group) > (#crew), which I doubt.
Sorry if I'm being dense here, but what does everyone else think about what kinds of teams might be out there? I'm not even thinking about SK type roles, or any other individual role, and if there's a mason-like contingent I'm hoping that they're town.
Are we of one mind that there are only two main teams (Alliance bad guys, and various good guys)?
I've spent a lot of time trying to imagine various set-ups, but with the information that we have so far into the nature of the game and the nature of the theme, the best possibility for a real third party (not masons, who seem to be just another town power role in msot cases) would be Reavers. Or, more likely a single Reaver to start, but who acts as a serial killer, and has a chance at infecting people instead of killing them. If # Reavers >town+scum, Reavers win? How's that sound?
Otherwise, there's an entire structure of black marketeering and mercenary-ing that goes on in the 'verse... but I don't see how either one could create a seperate faction.
(Underlining mine)
There's an even worse scenario: people apparently getting killed and miraculously reentering the game as zombies, or something. If they get a vote (even if they can't intervene in the discussion) things could get pretty screwy, pretty fast.
M3 - Monk- Won the game (cast the winning vote) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win) Crazyville - Doctor- Alive at the end (win) Cult of Sekham - Crusader - Killed by Cult... after I killed a Monk(loss--didn't kill at least one Unbeliever/Cult...because I'm stupid)/Vanilla townie (win). Firefly - In space no one can hear you role-claim!
M3 - Monk- Won the game (cast the winning vote) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win) Crazyville - Doctor- Alive at the end (win) Cult of Sekham - Crusader - Killed by Cult... after I killed a Monk(loss--didn't kill at least one Unbeliever/Cult...because I'm stupid)/Vanilla townie (win). Firefly - In space no one can hear you role-claim!