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Sept 21, 2007, 12:24am





Mafia Games :: Serenity :: Firefly :: On board the ship Serenity :: Day 1
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #690 on Sept 15, 2007, 10:40am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

(snipped)
WOW I’m becoming Roosh. Must be the reavers. I tried to be brief the last time because I thought the circular logic that is Roosh was clear. Now I’ve spelled it all out.





Nah. Your posts are far too readable to compare them to Roosh's.
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Cult of Sekham - Crusader - Killed by Cult... after I killed a Monk(loss--didn't kill at least one Unbeliever/Cult...because I'm stupid)/Vanilla townie (win).
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #691 on Sept 15, 2007, 10:55am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 10:36am, diggitcamara wrote:

There's an even worse scenario: people apparently getting killed and miraculously reentering the game as zombies, or something. If they get a vote (even if they can't intervene in the discussion) things could get pretty screwy, pretty fast.


I hope... no, I pray... that Kat and Naf will have left returning zombies to the other game (I forget who's going to be running it... the one with the witches and werewolves and vampires and scotsmen). That, combined with the lynch hammer, could be devestating to the town.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #692 on Sept 15, 2007, 11:12am »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 9:52am, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 9:48am, drainbead wrote:


Maybe it's the beers, but I'm finding it gorram near impossible to figure out what you mean by this. I think it's your usage of "crew" and "town," which seem to mean both the same and different things depending on where you use them. Can you rephrase?



I think she's using town in it's proper sense, sorta the sense of "landbound"... Inara is a nomad, while the Sheriff stays in one place.


arggh that's exactly what I was trying to post.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #693 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:12pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 9:17am, NAF1138 wrote:
as of now zuma is now Dotchan.


Welcome, Dotchan!

However, correct me if I'm wrong but...??? I was under the impression that Dotchan had perfect knowledge. ???

I just could have sworn I've seen her name as the last poster in the perfect knowledge forum. I could be mistaken, though.



Sept 15, 2007, 10:06am, storyteller0910 wrote:


I see only two possible reasons:

(1) You have decided in your own mind that Roosh is scum, and are unwilling to consider evidence that clashes with your predeveloped theory.

(2) You have access to some sort of information that we don't.

If it's the latter, then you are acting on non-public information in an effort to force an artificial outcome - the definition of "scummy" in my mind.

FoS sinjin


This boggles my mind some too. Come on, storyteller, you've played in enough games to know it could be 2 but 2b (as opposed to 2a "she's scum"). Namely that she's breadcrumbing.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #694 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:17pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:12pm, Idle Thoughts wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 9:17am, NAF1138 wrote:
as of now zuma is now Dotchan.


Welcome, Dotchan!

However, correct me if I'm wrong but...??? I was under the impression that Dotchan had perfect knowledge. ???

I just could have sworn I've seen her name as the last poster in the perfect knowledge forum. I could be mistaken, though.



Sept 15, 2007, 10:06am, storyteller0910 wrote:


I see only two possible reasons:

(1) You have decided in your own mind that Roosh is scum, and are unwilling to consider evidence that clashes with your predeveloped theory.

(2) You have access to some sort of information that we don't.

If it's the latter, then you are acting on non-public information in an effort to force an artificial outcome - the definition of "scummy" in my mind.

FoS sinjin


This boggles my mind some too. Come on, storyteller, you've played in enough games to know it could be 2 but 2b (as opposed to 2a "she's scum"). Namely that she's breadcrumbing.


This isn't breadcrumbing - this is dropping loaves (sorry for the rather repugnant imagery). If she were an investigative power role, her breadcrumbs would be subtler, less obvious. If she's an investigative power role and Roosh were scum, and she discovered that last night, then she's going to be in a bit of pickle toNight.

And even still, as I said earlier, with so little information to begin with, the behavior of scum and investigative power roles is going to look alike from a town perspective. I'm not sure there's a way to find the one without taking a chance of exposing the other.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #695 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm »
[Quote]

And as a final clarification of my views, I hope.

Why are you all buying into Roosh's original theory that the bad guys have no names or generic names. His theory is the only basis for the absence of a counter-claim having any significance. Even he has given up trying to push that one:

#644

Quote:
Whoa whoa whoa. I didn't see Scum didn't have names. Well. I did. But that was WAY back in the beginning w/ my ideas. I've had like 10 freaking pages to say okay, this might not be true.


and then he writes in the same post;


Quote:
Why would scum claim a major role? It's safer to claim a more "obscure" role.

This has been answered several times already so I won't address it again. However, why would scum even want to claim any name/role? They could just claim their own name/role and if it's scummy they could say they had an epiphany and were good guys now. Also, I still don't know how you distinguish the good from the bad in the ambiguous firefly-verse where people are switching sides at the drop of a beer.


So basically in my view any name-claim is just a typical "Hey, no, not me I'm town, perfectly truthy" if you take the emporer's new clothes off it.


And story, I'm not pushing to lynch him. I'm just ASTOUNDED that you and several others are not even questioning the logic of this name-claim/counter-claim theory/defense.

Did you all get a PM I didn't announcing that scum have no or obviously scummy names?


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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #696 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm »
[Quote]

Just piping in to say that I'm reading, bear with me. Digesting the thread from both ends at the same time is quite odd.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #697 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:23pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:12pm, Idle Thoughts wrote:
However, correct me if I'm wrong but...??? I was under the impression that Dotchan had perfect knowledge. ???

I just could have sworn I've seen her name as the last poster in the perfect knowledge forum. I could be mistaken, though.


Only if she's hacked the board. *gives dotchan a stern look* Have you hacked the board, dot?

No, she's only been in the Sub Hangout Thread in the Observation forum. She's never been the the Security forum.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #698 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:24pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, sinjin wrote:
And as a final clarification of my views, I hope.

Why are you all buying into Roosh's original theory that the bad guys have no names or generic names. His theory is the only basis for the absence of a counter-claim having any significance. Even he has given up trying to push that one:



Who's buying into anything Roosh is saying?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #699 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:26pm »
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Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies wrote:
Digesting the thread from both ends at the same time is quite odd.


I knew a cat that tried to do that, once. Ruined both the carpet and the cat.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #700 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:34pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:23pm, Kat wrote:

Only if she's hacked the board. *gives dotchan a stern look* Have you hacked the board, dot?

No, she's only been in the Sub Hangout Thread in the Observation forum. She's never been the the Security forum.


Yeah, I can't even see the last poster on the Perfect Knowledge forum.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #701 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:47pm »
[Quote]

Re: The question of whether I am a Woman Who Knows Too Much

I do not have the password to the Spoiler Board. Mods, please confirm this.

I've just been playing along at home, up in the Observation Deck, or what I've semi-jokingly called the Peanut Gallery. Since I wasn't sure whether or not I would actually sub in, I posted some of my speculations under the "spoiler" tag.

One of my spoilers - my belief that dnooman's claim makes no sense - has since been rendered moot by the mods confirming that alliance citizens do not equal Alliance Scum. Therefore even though dnooman is an alliance citizen with a win condition of killing all of the Alliance Scum, he himself does not need to die.

The other spoiler was just me wondering whether Roosh will get himself lynched on Day One for talking too much, or running the risk of being ignored in subsequent Days.

I'm also of the belief that a mass nameclaim will NOT break the game for the town, so I'm expecting that what someone else thinks to be a "safe" claim might be a fake name that the mods gave to scum as cover; or, alternately, the real roles don't want to run the risk of outing themselves on Day One, so they've kept silent. And on that vein, I'm going to FoS Roosh because of his behavior earlier, plus his role claim that he has a 50% one-shot revenge kill is a convenient way to make sure a potential vig (if we have one) thinks twice about trying to off him, and I can't be sure that his rolename of Inarra guarentees his alignment.

I'm also going to FoS MadtheSwine, storyteller, and mtgman (in that order) for their spat earlier. Mad does have an insane playstyle (one that I found scummy in the Psychopath game despite Mad's vanilla role there), but this hyperaggression can't quite be written off as Mad being his usual crazy self just yet. Storyteller's reaction also seems kind of over the top, and mtgman's involvement into the feud was also somewhat eyebrow raising.

Furthermore, dnooman goes in the column of "confirmed town" for now, unless I find further evidence to the contrary.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #702 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:51pm »
[Quote]

BTW, even as a person who speaks Mandarin Chinese, I'm finding the filters a little bit irritating. It kind of takes me out of the game. If I want to use Chinese, I'd type it myself. (In pinyin, of course. I doubt most of you guys have the language support and fonts to display characters, and even then you probably wouldn't be able to read it.)
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Wine in front of me, how I hate thee, let me name the ways...

Totally a townie. Obviously not scum.

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #703 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:52pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:24pm, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, sinjin wrote:
And as a final clarification of my views, I hope.

Why are you all buying into Roosh's original theory that the bad guys have no names or generic names. His theory is the only basis for the absence of a counter-claim having any significance. Even he has given up trying to push that one:



Who's buying into anything Roosh is saying?


Everyone who is saying he isn't scum because no one counter-claimed his Inara name claim.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #704 on Sept 15, 2007, 12:53pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:47pm, dotchan wrote:
I do not have the password to the Spoiler Board. Mods, please confirm this.


dotchan does not have the password to the Spoiler Board.

These are not the droids you're looking for.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #705 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:07pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:52pm, sinjin wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:24pm, Diomedes wrote:


Who's buying into anything Roosh is saying?


Everyone who is saying he isn't scum because no one counter-claimed his Inara name claim.


For my own understanding, do you think of me as one of those people? Because unvoting someone on Day 1 is hugely different from saying that they aren't scum.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #706 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:13pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:52pm, sinjin wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:24pm, Diomedes wrote:


Who's buying into anything Roosh is saying?


Everyone who is saying he isn't scum because no one counter-claimed his Inara name claim.


I hate people who use rolleyes smilies.... but I don't think I have any other choice here:

::)

You don't see the possibility of, say, scum ahving scummy names? You know, good guys would have good names, bad guys would have bad names, and the people in the middle would have the lesser known names.

wah! It'd be like there's a theme to the game, if you correlated names with positions, wouldn't it? Imagine, Themed Mafia... it's an idea that could make me millions.

Now I'm not saying that necessarily Roosh isn't scum. I'm saying that there's no reason to suspect he's lying about his roleclaim, and that the role he's claimed, in all likelyhood, is Crew. Do you really not understand how that differs from saying that Scum will have generic names?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #707 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:34pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:34pm, Diomedes wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:23pm, Kat wrote:

Only if she's hacked the board. *gives dotchan a stern look* Have you hacked the board, dot?

No, she's only been in the Sub Hangout Thread in the Observation forum. She's never been the the Security forum.


Yeah, I can't even see the last poster on the Perfect Knowledge forum.


I can, but that's only because I'm an admin. I cannot access the board however (And I haven't tried either, however I know this from MY hosted game when I had to put in the password all the time myself).

And yeah, sinjin, I don't get what you're so up in arms about. Who said anyone is believing or disbeliving anything regarding if scum have real show names or not?
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #708 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:40pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 12:52pm, sinjin wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:24pm, Diomedes wrote:


Who's buying into anything Roosh is saying?


Everyone who is saying he isn't scum because no one counter-claimed his Inara name claim.


I'm not getting how your A + B must = C in this case where A is "Roosh has claimed a major character name/role" and B is "Some choose to give him the benefit of the doubt for now pending a counterclaim" and C is "Believing that the scum probably don't have names from the show."
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #709 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:53pm »
[Quote]

I've read through the thread (mostly, some of the stuff I skimmed) but I've got jack to show for it. Nothing has really grabbed me. About all I can say is that a few people look safer to me (mostly based on my role PM and what I'm guessing is in theirs), but nobody sticks out as obviously scummy.

(The role theory is predicated on the idea that the win condition for the Alliance scum is likely to be worded differently than for the good guys or any neutral/other scum. I don't see much point in speculating beyond that.)

It kind of sucks. I think we really need to start trying to get some serious voting in. Maybe on Monday we could have a prelim deadline/final argument phase?

The best I've got:
storyteller kind of articulated the sort of feeling I had about sinjin, but it was only sort of pinging me a bit. I think he's semi-scummy.

pygmy rugger hasn't said much at all, which kind of bothers me. I almost think the "who is scum?" could be scum trying to make a 'dumb mistake' to make themselves look more like town (and possibly gain more information on other types of roles in the game, if lucky).

I know he won't be around to speak up on this right now, but I'm going to

vote Pygmy Rugger
since I think it's time everyone started voting, even if they're not very sure on it.



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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #710 on Sept 15, 2007, 1:59pm »
[Quote]

Seriously. I thought one of the few basic rules of how Mafia is played is if you get lynched, and are a townie power role, make a role claim. See, that's how you keep a bandwagon from forming around you, and you stop from getting carried off to the gallows.

Another basic rule of etiquette here is that if you don't have a good reason to doubt someone's role claim, you accept it. Because it's better off for the town to let a scum live for an extra day than it is for the town to lynch a power role.

It really feels like the attitude of a lot of poeple regarding Roosh is "He's annoying. He posts too much. So he must be scum. If he can't provide incontrovertible evidence that he's not a scum, then he's worth lynching anyways in order to get rid of a high-count poster who's annoying." But the problem with that, is that this isn't a game where we try to keep the most enjoyable people around. There are gilded-tongued Alliance members who I'm sure will post less, and post more thoughtfully than Roosh will... but they'll still slit our throats in the night.

There's a single, bloody-minded inertia that's driving your suspicions of Roosh, sinjin. It's one thing to be suspicious of someone, it's another to try to destabilize a roleclaim by a town power-role. This leads me to one of two conclusions. And because I don't think you're stupid, that leaves that you're hiding something. FOS: sinjin
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #711 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:02pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 1:53pm, panamajack wrote:


vote Pygmy Rugger
since I think it's time everyone started voting, even if they're not very sure on it.



Psst... I think the vote color is supposed to be blue
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #712 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:05pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 1:07pm, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies wrote:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:52pm, sinjin wrote:


Everyone who is saying he isn't scum because no one counter-claimed his Inara name claim.


For my own understanding, do you think of me as one of those people? Because unvoting someone on Day 1 is hugely different from saying that they aren't scum.


NO, you didn't say he isn't scum but there were several who essentially did.

CatInASuit just 2.5 hours after Roosh's outing. Without even waiting for a proverbial counter-claim.

Quote:
Well it looks like I guessed kinda right. You are a power role albeit a town one.


story: 4 hours after the Roosh outing hedging by accepting the need for a counter-claim.

Quote:
But: It is exceedingly likely that Inara is, in fact, in the game, as she is one of the most important characters on the show. More significantly, if she's not, the scum would expect that she most likely is. It would be quite a gambit to false claim Inara on the off-chance that she wasn't included in the game.

Thus, in the absence of a counterclaim, I'm inclined to believe Roosh for the moment.


etc.

You stopped and thought about it and went back and read the posts. Several people just posted, yep good enough for me. And it's killing me that no one else sees the logical flaw in name-claim/counter-claim reasoning.

guay even I don't know if he's a total doof or a total scum. But at least I'm asking questions. It just seems to me that every one else is suddenly accepting his extremely flawed premise completely. Don't you see how dangerous this is for the crew? The scum have the perfect out. They say their real names and no one counter-claims because the counter-claim theory is a rutting red herring.

Please crew, just consider, if you take away the name-claim counter-claim jabber would you believe him if he just said "oh nos, don't lynch me, I'm a good guy, oh, and by the way I have the power to kill the baddies 50% of the time if they kill me so don't expect me to be night-killed tonight" would you really feel the same way? Especially after all the gazillion pages of bullshit?

Actually now that I think about it I think we should just shove him out the air-lock. If he's telling the truth we have a 50% chance of getting a scum too. And we won't have all of his posts cluttering up the board. If he's scum we get rid of one of them and we also don't have all his posts cluttering up the board. WIN-WIN shiny. 8-) Way better odds than a random kill.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #713 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:29pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 2:05pm, sinjin wrote:
If he's telling the truth we have a 50% chance of getting a scum too.


Actually, we'd get a 50% chance of hitting one of the 15 people who voted for him, regardless of how many of those individuals are scum or town or whathaveyou.
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #714 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:34pm »
[Quote]

oops that's right it's 50% if he's night killed.

Ok no more wine or posting for me, I'm done. "I will say no more forever."
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #715 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:42pm »
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Ack...so we we're both wrong then. :)
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #716 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:43pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 6:39am, storyteller0910 wrote:


Inara is a Companion (read: prostitute)


Hey! Treat a lady with some rutting respect here!
I prefer the term Seamstress.
(I know more about Terry Pratchett than FF, sorry)

Now some Content/Defending:

***NOTE: I just read the next post was Diomedes, who addresses Sinjin's issues. But i just made a long post about it. Diomedes though pretty much gives the shorter, concise explainations. But again, if you want my thoughts: here they are:



Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:
Then remember dnooman was a bad guy and a member of the alliance on the show he is crew in the game.


We believe Dnoo to be crew. Yes, the mod clarified, so that's a huge point in his favor. And he's got someone else saying they're also the same win condition/status (and I've got a few backers with the same as me as well it seems) But we shouldn't assume he's cleared, and sure, healthy suspicion of me is good. However, all out dislike of me isn't so shiny
so most uncool, Sinjin.


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:
2) (Hint points to story) And please recall the Harry Potter mafia game mentioned 1000 pages ago before you answer. And recall that good people can turn into reavers on the show.


Yes. That's a valid issue, that the existence of a Cult makes life difficult. However, it's the first day. I think if I was cult, I'd play a little bit smarter than just "balls to the walls Townie". But this is a possibility as the game goes on. So yes, LATE Game strategy we should be wary of me. Though i wonder if cults "attack".... :-/ Hmmm...
That'd be interesting. Again, better w/ more data to come back to this idea.


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

Then go to this link:
mafiascum
3) Do I really think NAF and Kat are that stupid to create a game that can be broken so easily?

Well, they said they included roles that AREN'T as easily observable from the FF universe, if you read around on the site there, it suggests ways to counter the mass Roleclaim, and the drawbacks of it. People have suggested and pointed out that there are some measures against it. Plus a mass nameclaim isn't gamebreaking IF the scum have "safe roles" ie: they make it up, or they're provided with a non-scummy role, or they claim an obscure crazy role that people are unsure of (because as the Mods have pointed out, they have included some non-famouser stuff or at least non-wiki stuff). Plus, even then, you have to KILL the scum, and the scum will know all the information that the town does in a Mass roleclaim/nameclaim.
That's why the idea isn't the Best, so I was trying to tweak it to create a better more Pro-Town version of it, w/o losing all our major roles too.



Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

4) Why did Roosh claim Inara when he was going down the toilet?

Because a power Role claim early on w/ no pressure is stupid and foolish. And because I've had like5-6 votes from the get go (I expected it w/ my ideas, but still), but at that point I began to see that people weren't just looking at Anything else, and that i was Dominating the conversation, but in the wrong aspect. I want the town to think, but not waste time with "How guilty does he look?" over and over. It's not a good townie thing to do. So i made a judgment call, and hoped that we have enough time left to figure out something else. Plus, I was really confused by Dnooman's claim, because it seemed he was very anti-My Win condition (Until the mod pointed out the mistake).


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

a. He’s a total doof and that’s his real game-name and she is good and he’s been stinking up the game with his crapola.

Oh. Okay. Yeah. I guess that's another opinion.... :-\
You were also the one who claimed in the beginning I had things that made me look pro-town. That I could be "just a townie with a bad idea" and then in the next post said I wasn't and promptly voted for me. I haven't forgotten that..... I was so excited that you understood, and then next post "Nope! Kill him!" (X_x) Since then you've refused to even think about any other possibilities.


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

b. He’s got a name other than Inara but choose it because it’s one of the possible power roles and won’t be counter-claimed on day one.

You mean i did the very idea that I was trying to implement and propose to the town? The very idea I was trying to use to trip-up scum? Well. Why would I even want to bring up my ideas then? Why not just claim ONLY if under pressure (which if i didn't make my ideas, i wouldn't be in, guay we could be discussing how to Hammer right now), and then walk away casually?


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

c. His name is Inara and she’s been taken over to the dark-side and he’s scum.

-A valid LATE Game idea. Not so much early on. We don't even know there IS a dark side (I think there is, but that's again MY opinions. the Factual basis? None. : points to gut: that's all I've got). We need more Data. Ie: A dead culty type of guy.


Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

5) Why were so many smart mafia players like story and CatInASuit so eager to unvote Roosh after he name-claimed and before anybody even had a chance to counter-claim?

Okay, here's something you can learn actually. The Smart players unvoted because it's the SMART thing to do. (sorry, that's not meant to be as dickish as it sounds. here's some humor to counter it: *Goes in front of mirror and jumps up and down* Wheeeee!)
But okay. Check this out. You get unlimited votes/unvotes.
So... if someone counterclaims. Just go and Vote for me again.
EASY PEASY BEAUTIFUL. By unvoting, they're expressing that they are acknowledging the possibility that i could be correct. And so, it also helps to prevent a quicker lynching of me by other players. If they then feel i'm guilty, they can just come back and VOTE AGAIN.

That's just a "smart" tactic to use. The "smart players' did it, because it's the correct thing to do, it's a wise move (Scum can do it too though to easily gain townie cred, but that's WIFOM).



Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

6) If all you have to do is name-claim when you’re under the gun what’s to stop the scum from name-claiming all the possible power roles or just using their bad guy names and claiming they’ve seen the light? (remember dnooman) Scum win.

People will die over the course of the game. More info will be provided. We may have a killer thats on OUR side of the game as well (a vig possibility). Maybe he's not sure if he buys a power role/ reformed scum and Vigges him. If we wake up and find out that our so calld "reformed scum" is really True scum. Then we'll go back and get all those people who used said excuse. You need more Data for these possibilities. Right now, you're too focused into think I could ONLY be scum (Tunnel vision).
Think about it this way. If you're town. And you were forced to claim under pressure. Couldn't ALL these arguments be leveled against you as well? But you could REALLY be town. But these accusations are still there. I can't help you see past it, but realize that some of the stuff you're saying, we don't have the data to prove it yet, and that some stuff you're saying is just simply damning no matter what role you have- a townie couldn't prove innocence just as much as a scum couldn't prove it. it's just WIFOM/suspicions. Keep them though. Wait a while, and then come back to them. But don't let it put only a death warrent out on my head and leave it as such.

I've been discussing these ideas since inception of them. I've actually ADDRESSED the issues of Scum posing as ProTown leaders (My opinion, I think it puts enough of a noose on them that I'm fine iwth it (because if our real person dies, then we got one autolynch the next day. Scum have to then live knowing they can't kill a certain role, and in fear for a claim any time as well from the person).
But you don't want to point out that I said these things do you?
Because I'm scum, and therefore all my ideas have no merit?? Come on, alot of these points you're bringing up from like my first DAY of posting my ideas. Since then we've discussed it a TON more.

Sheesh.
Like why aren't you saying these things vs. Dnooman? Oh, because you believe him completely. With your last statement, which I'll leave till the end.
But Why the such Anti-Me?
Oh good, you tell us:

Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:
7) Why am I so adamant about all of this.

a. Before he figured out what was wrong with his stance to take out dnooman and all his kin (prodded by story to recant btw) he was essentially declaring war on crew, which includes me and I know we are the white hats in this space opera.


If you are an alliance member, then yes i did "declare war" against you. I don't really see where I declared war on crew though. If you're referring to Roosh's Big Idea 1.0 then at this point you're being deliberately obtuse. I have pointed out DOZENS of times what my idea is and meant to be, and what its not. Hell, i tried to show it against Dnoo (before i got suspicious w/ my PMs *heh, PMS... cuz i'm a woman. It never gets old*). Dnoo claimed his name, no one countered, and I unvoted.
THATS what My so called "War against crew"?
Or unless you refuse to look past my first posts on the ideas before any suggestions or corrections were given. In which case, then gorram. I can't change anything, because you only listen to first impressions. A guy can't change? Then I can't do anything to clear my name vs. you.



Sept 15, 2007, 8:42am, sinjin wrote:

c. I’m crew, dnooman is crew and I think a lot of others who posted immediately after his come out are crew. But Roosh is town of some sort which he thinks is because he has some sort of minor power role. And I find it strange that the Sheriff (who lives in a town) is a crew good guy and Inara(Roosh) who lived on the Firefly ship Serenity for most of the series is a town good guy. That’s what I was obliquely trying to point to before.

WHAT? ??? You're suspicious cuz the sheriff lives in a TOWN therefore he's a TOWNIE. But because I'm from a spaceship I'm NOT Townie?!?! You're kidding. So you can be Townie and Crew. But not Crew and Townie?
... I can't defend against that. I got nothing.
Yeah. I'm a Crew member. No I don't belong to a "Town" I belong to "the Crew".
So I guess I'm just Crewy but not townie? That idea sounds SCrewy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FLUFF: (Cuz goddamn, I don't mind long analyses, but I just read everyone else already countering Sinjin. so :shrug: might as well have some fun if i'm block posting:


: Blood Runs Cold: Dotchan is playing the Game (O_O)
/j/k. Actually, I'm curious to hear from Dotchan. And I dont let info from games carry over. So it's all good Chan :)

2. "witches and werewolves and vampires and scotsmen"-dio
Scotsmen would TOTALLY be an shiny Idea for a townie role. Esp. if everyone had to act Scottish as well throughout the day. (And amusingly enough, I've seen a Scotsman role once: It was basically a "Toughguy" townie, he could survive 1-2 Nightkills by scum)

~~~~~~~~Wait~ More Content~~~~~~


Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, sinjin wrote:

This has been answered several times already so I won't address it again. However, why would scum even want to claim any name/role? They could just claim their own name/role and if it's scummy they could say they had an epiphany and were good guys now.
.
This is easy: If you had an epiphany... and you're now town... well then, I'll be doubtful, and i'll wait for more Data. Such as seeing if any other "bad guy" looking names end up dead and Town. If that's the case, then fine. Have a change of heart. But if every "evil guy name that's still a normal name" ends up evil. I'm gonna come back and look at the REST of your actions real hard.
There are other facets than just the name claim to this.


Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, sinjin wrote:

Also, I still don't know how you distinguish the good from the bad in the ambiguous firefly-verse where people are switching sides at the drop of a beer.

Doubt is good. Tunnel vision= BAD.
Maybe your good buddy, Dnoo, got attacked by the reavers last night. What's to say that I'M the one with all this crazy gos se happening to me vs. anyone else? I dislike it, but meh, you can't please them all. If people keep switching sides, then just wait till more DATA arrives. When it comes, Go THROUGH it. Then see where it matches your suspicions. Then come back with them.


Sept 15, 2007, 12:19pm, sinjin wrote:


And story, I'm not pushing to lynch him.

Then you're just deliberately trying to muddy the waters. You just really like "smudging" people, with what in mind? Have people become suspicious of them. Then what happens? They'll vote for him.
So quit the Townie euphemisms. You're basically trying to convince people to vote for me. Even if YOU don't vote for me, it's still your ideas that'll spread the doubt. That's what townies do. But at least own up to it. Otherwise what are you trying to accomplish other than muddying the waters?
"Gee, he looks real scummy guys."
"Yep."
"So uh. Anyone wanna lynch him?"
"Nope."
"Okay. Well. I'm just saying he looks scummy. So uh. But that's it. We don't have to lynch him or anything for looking scummy. But I'm just saying... that boy ain't right...."
"Yep...."
"Okay. Well. It's good seeing you, Bob. Same time tomorrow? Let's just come back and point out how scummy he is again? And then just walk away?"
/sarcastic fluff.


*oh, and I did NOT get A PM for the names issue. Hence i liked the ModCorrection.
Why are you trying to fish for info though about it?
Some people have obvious agreed with me enough to where reading their posts was a play by play account of someone who did not get such a PM.

So quit fishing, Sinjin! Even I can see the harm in claiming up to that! FOS SINJIN.

~~~~~~~~~~Dotchan:

Sept 15, 2007, 12:47pm, dotchan wrote:
And on that vein, I'm going to FoS Roosh
Good to have you back, Dotchan. ::)


Sept 15, 2007, 12:47pm, dotchan wrote:

Furthermore, dnooman goes in the column of "confirmed town" for now, unless I find further evidence to the contrary.


Oooh, but what about the "crazy reavers in his brain" theory used against me? He's about as Confirmed as Me. Which is to say, "Townie, but keep doubts on them"


Sept 15, 2007, 2:05pm, sinjin wrote:

Actually now that I think about it I think we should just shove him out the air-lock. If he's telling the truth we have a 50% chance of getting a scum too.* And we won't have all of his posts cluttering up the board. If he's scum we get rid of one of them and we also don't have all his posts cluttering up the board. WIN-WIN shiny. 8-) Way better odds than a random kill.


THIS MAKES NO rutting SENSE.
*So if I'm TOWN and Dead. You'll have outted scum? WHERE? Dnooman? Because you just said you're on his side.
This is NOT a case of Me vs. Dnooman. I have no idea where the guay you're getting the "Let's kill the townie power role because there's a 50% chance we'll get a scum too!"

we won't have all of his posts cluttering up the board. -Fucking ANTI-TOWN. POSTS=DATA=EVIDENCE. I even said i'm gonna post rutting less.

At this point... Goddamnit. You're either REALLY REALLY Newbie Vindictive Town, or you're a crazy ass noOb Scum who's overplaying their hand. I actually am leaning to the former (only because of playing with Dotchan), but in the meantime I'll let my vote rest on you to keep you in my sights.


Vote Sinjin

Until you clear up your crazy anti-town ideas, and explain why killing annoying townies is Pro-town vs. trying to find possible scum?


Edit comment: I think I fixed all the quote tags. Roosh, please let me know if any of the quotes are incorrectly tagged (i.e. something you quoted is not in a quote box, or something you wrote is in a quote box).
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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #717 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:44pm »
[Quote]

Unless he is lying and is an Avatar or some kind, then I could be right.
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M3 - vanilla townie - win
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #718 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:46pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 2:34pm, sinjin wrote:
oops that's right it's 50% if he's night killed.

Ok no more wine or posting for me, I'm done. "I will say no more forever."


*facepalms*
Jesus rutting christ on a gos se stick of assholeaon boolean logic.
The fuck, man... The fuck?
Most uncool, Sinjin.
But still.

Care to explain Why killing annoying townies is better than finding scum?
Then i'll start to unvote you, but jeez.
>:(
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Robert Smith Should do a Cover of Coldplay's Clocks, so when he sings "Am I part of the cure/ or am I part of the disease?" We can say, "Ooh, we know this one!"

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Some call me the gangster of Love....
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 Re: Day 1
« Reply #719 on Sept 15, 2007, 2:56pm »
[Quote]


Sept 15, 2007, 2:05pm, sinjin wrote:
guay even I don't know if he's a total doof or a total scum. But at least I'm asking questions. It just seems to me that every one else is suddenly accepting his extremely flawed premise completely. Don't you see how dangerous this is for the crew? The scum have the perfect out. They say their real names and no one counter-claims because the counter-claim theory is a rutting red herring.


Only if the real name of an Alliance member is Inara. Maybe you haven't seen the show, that's fine. But that's like saying that in a LotR based game, Frodo would be an Ork. Or in a Communism based game, Lenin would be a Capitalist. I'm not saying that they might not be scum (a la the Harry Potter game you mentioned), but I am saying that the mods wouldn't deliberately give their group a name which doesn't fit with the members. If we have a Detective come by and tell us someone's scum, and when we lynch them they turn out to have a good guy's name, then we know that the people who set the game up don't really care about the theme, and we ignore names from then on out. But I don't think that's a likely turn of events.

And I think you have some information whose origin you don't want to tell us. Either you're the real Inara or the detective and you're afraid of getting hit by the rest of the scum this early in the game, in which case you should have just kept quiet, because if Roosh is scum, you're getting whacked pretty soon, and you won't be able to help the town with your powers much longer. Or you're scum, and you're trying to blow smoke up our asses. Or you're clueless, and can't figure out why your suspicions of Roush aren't as valid as a random vote for anyone else who hasn't made an uncountered roleclaim by one of the few characters who pretty much define "Crew". Just because something can be suspected doesn't mean that it has to be.

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