[quote author=pygmyrugger board=game thread=1189466937 post=1190057900] <snip> 2. I say you said there were only two brothers. <snip> RE #2 ..that is not what you said.
Well, I already have a FoS on you Roosh, so I'll just jab at you with my pointy accusatory finger some more.
Voting for me just to verify my name claim? What happened to not voting for claimed people if no counterclaim popped up?
What part of THERE ISN'T NECESSARILY A 1 TO 1 CORRELATION OF GOOD GUYS TO BAD GUYS IN THIS GAME that you don't dong ma? Do I need to put this is size 72 blinking font? This is exactly why you got lambasted for your "let's all mass nameclaim day one for great justice!" plan.
Yes, we can afford a mislynch on Day 1. But I'd much rather go scumhunting, instead of shooting for a "safe" or "easy" play.
I think the claim/counterclaim for role names is only going to work for major characters in the Firefly universe. eg Inara Serra.
There are plenty of minor characters out there in the 'verse. However, with the results of Swine Sanchez being shown to be in the Firefly universe, it is very likely that all the characters will be there somewhere.
Anyone who cannot find their character name at all is probably trying to hide their true name. So voting for someone whose name cannot be found is likely to turn up Alliance scum. This is nothing to do with mass claiming and everything to do with not actually being there.
Sorry dotchan, this means you.
vote dotchan.
Don't worry, there may be a side order of F(B)CoD joining you tomorrow as he seems to be having the same difficulty.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #993 on Sept 18, 2007, 5:56am »
As the canon seems to have aborted a few consensus candidates so far, I'm in agreement that Dotchan's unconfirmable "Ramiro" is as good of a lynch as any that has been in the realm of possibility toDay.
M1 - vanilla townie - win M3 - vanilla townie - win M4 - subbed-out scum - loss (but I don't count this one, because I only played for 2 days. ) M5 - monk townie - win (by the skin of my teeth){=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/wink.gif{/=}
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Voting for me just to verify my name claim? What happened to not voting for claimed people if no counterclaim popped up?
I know you asked this question of Roosh, but I'm a big proponent of the "no vote for uncountered claims in the early days" theory.
You didn't make a claim that could be countered. I mean, hell, there are only two real ways for a claim to be countered: if you make a claim for a position that is unlikely for the town to have two of, then another person with that position might be able to make a counterclaim. Or, a name claim. There won't be two Simon Tams or Badgers or whatever. (I hope)
You claimed vanilla townie. Well, nobody can counter a vanilla townie claim, because there's obviously no limit on the supply of vanilla. You also claimed Ramiro... a character not appearing in the series. No one's going to counterclaim you, because this is a Firefly-themed game, and you're claiming a non-firefly themed name. While I suppose there is a possibility that a vanilla name was added in to fill a vanilla role, I don't think it's large enough to be reasonable.
Voting for me just to verify my name claim? What happened to not voting for claimed people if no counterclaim popped up?
I know you asked this question of Roosh, but I'm a big proponent of the "no vote for uncountered claims in the early days" theory.
You didn't make a claim that could be countered. I mean, hell, there are only two real ways for a claim to be countered: if you make a claim for a position that is unlikely for the town to have two of, then another person with that position might be able to make a counterclaim. Or, a name claim. There won't be two Simon Tams or Badgers or whatever. (I hope)
You claimed vanilla townie. Well, nobody can counter a vanilla townie claim, because there's obviously no limit on the supply of vanilla. You also claimed Ramiro... a character not appearing in the series. No one's going to counterclaim you, because this is a Firefly-themed game, and you're claiming a non-firefly themed name. While I suppose there is a possibility that a vanilla name was added in to fill a vanilla role, I don't think it's large enough to be reasonable.
Yeah..I don't see any way your claim is verifiable,and like Dio mentioned...how the heck are we spose to get a counter-claim?
Seems like a last ditch effort.
While I am veeeeery suspect of Pygmy, this doesn't sit well.
I'm going to go back and read zuma posts and see if I can find anything interesting. Right now I'm leaning toward sitting on my current vote unless I find something that gives me a compelling reason to do so.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1000 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:26am »
Quick analysis of zuma posts: --Page 1, silly vote for Idle. --Post 8, some speculation on how many sides there might be in this game. --Post 11, More speculation on sides, including crew/Alliance/reavers. Also says that town power roles should not be discussed. --Post 13, talks about plurality vs. majority and being careful of who is the hammer. --Post 17, gives more info on Reavers. Likens them to a SK or recruiter role. --Post 21, says WTF is fishing for power roles and gives an FOS to WTF --Post 26, jokes with Cookies about M5 --Post 62, says he won't participate in the debate over random voting --Post 176, argues with Idle about what majority means. --Post 181, argues more with Idle about what majority means. --Post 188, joke about Idle attacking her on Night 1 --Post 194, argues MORE with Idle about what majority means. --Post 200, offers to quote the wiki link on "jackass" --Post 225, says that anyone who hammers without town consensus will get his vote first thing in the Morning. --Post 237, argues with sinjin about whether or not crew would want to be the 15th vote and face being thought of as scummy. Emphasizes that he meant anyone who hammered without getting town consensus first. --Post 254, apologizes for getting pissy. --Post 258, says that "good" characters might be scum, or some characters might be made up. Says that he thinks that a game where the "good" characters were all town and the "bad" were all scum would be broken. --(as an aside, I FOS zuma somewhere in here for voting based on the "majority" argument, or at least using it to provide reasoning for his earlier random vote.)
I'm leaving work now--will finish this when I get home.
I'm going to go back and read zuma posts and see if I can find anything interesting. Right now I'm leaning toward sitting on my current vote unless I find something that gives me a compelling reason to do so.
Sorry, but we can't be afraid of a bandwagon in this game. It's either Bandwagon or No Lynch. I certainly don't want to end a day on No Lynch.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
I'm going to go back and read zuma posts and see if I can find anything interesting. Right now I'm leaning toward sitting on my current vote unless I find something that gives me a compelling reason to do so.
This just doesn't make sense to me. What's your problem with people examining arguments and reaching the same conclusion. If there wasn't a very good reason for voting for someone, and people just started voting, I'd understand. But you really seem to have a problem with someone having a large number of votes, regardless of reason.
A bandwagon generally refers to large amounts of support given without reason, no?
I'm going to go back and read zuma posts and see if I can find anything interesting. Right now I'm leaning toward sitting on my current vote unless I find something that gives me a compelling reason to do so.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1004 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:34am »
Okay, I'm all caught up now, but I don't have a lot of time. I'm willing to unvote Roosh for now, because I'm sufficiently satisfied that there's better fish to fry at this point.
However, I ain't likin' dotchan one bit. In fact, zuma was my #2 suspicion behind Roosh, enough so, that I considered changing my vote to him on Friday. Now, I seedotchan and the post that Idle later pointed out (but I'd highlighted it to respond to already). I can understand saying "town", because it is the generic term, just like saying "scum" instead of Alliance. However, the apparent dismissive knowledge of the name seems like a slip. Combine that with zuma's super-scummy vote/FOS with no reason before subbing, and I'm inclined to vote dotchan.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1005 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:34am »
I am so confused, I don't even know where to begin. There are more than 1,000 posts toDay. If we continue at our current pace, we'll have role claims from eight to ten players before the first Day is even done, and I'm thinking that's decidedly not to our advantage.
The problem is, there's just too much information.
I'm still not sure I understand dotchan's reason for role claiming, given that she specifically said that she thought it was a bad idea for vanilla townies to claim unless they were in danger of being lynched. In her long ago and easily missed reply to me, she said that she felt she was the next target on the block, but at the time she claimed she had only two votes. It just seems very inconsistent.
I am going to look at Diomedes a bit now. Right now I'd be comfortable with a vote for dotchan, somewhat less so with a vote for MadtheSwine (I still don't trust him, but given that the specifics of his claim have been given, and there's still been no counterclaim of any kind - I'd have expected that someone with a real pro-town Mason-type role would have spoken up by now if he were just flat lying - I'll let it go for now).
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1006 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:36am »
Vote MadtheSwine Unvote MadtheSwine Vote dotchan
I want the voting record to show that I find Mad very inconsistent, and think the way he claimed is just... odd.
However, I do not think it is in our best interest to end the Day with a no lynch. Consider my vote for dotchan pliable, I will change it to ensure a lynch today, if necessary.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1007 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:40am »
Look, in this game, avoiding bandwagons (especially if you're already on people's suspicions lists) is going to create possible "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situations.
Why wouldn't someone vote for someone else that seems to be a good choice or at least what appears to be the only good one so far? Know they're scum and don't want to help them get lynched? Know they're town and don't want to appear guilty or be one of the people who pressed for a lynch IF it turns out everyone was all wrong?
Holding out on a one off vote is shady in this version because so much hinges on having a lynch be successful. Mistakes will happen. That is the point of the game. But I think scum are more LIKELY not to vote on bandwagons because in either of those cases (depending on which it is), they don't want to lose one of their teamates or look guilty at a Town lynch repsectively.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1008 on Sept 18, 2007, 6:49am »
Yeah, maybe I jumped the gun on my claim, but given the tone of people's posts concerning me, I thought I might as well get my role out in the open before the clock ticked down much further.
...and then it looks like I might get lynched anyway because my rolename is so fricking obscure.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1009 on Sept 18, 2007, 7:00am »
I'm trying to figure out how my love of Firefly will help me in this game, lol. Because I am a big fan and have been for some time. I might skip back to earlier in Day 1 when the roles were being discussed and hppefully draw the parallels there.
From where I sit I see 2 potential votes to cast this round - MadTheSwine and dotchan. They're also - at present - those who have the most attention targeted to them. In a sense that could be seen as a bandwagon vote or simply because the evidence against them is convincing enough. I don't feel ready to vote yet but I promise once I've had a chance to do a review of the early days that I was happily ignoring for some time I'll have a better idea of who I want to vote.
And FTR - I'm a newbie to this style of Mafia games. I have played in 2 others but they're paced a heck of a lot differently and not nearly half as intense, lol.
I want the voting record to show that I find Mad very inconsistent, and think the way he claimed is just... odd.
However, I do not think it is in our best interest to end the Day with a no lynch. Consider my vote for dotchan pliable, I will change it to ensure a lynch today, if necessary.
M2 - Beat Cop - Killed by the Mafia (loss) Hispanola - Vanilla Crew - Alive at the end (win). Crazyville - Therapist - Killed by the Psychos and my Lover Kat took her own life - (win). Cult of Sekham - Alchemist - Blowed up by the Cult - (win). Firefly - Space Monkey! (see avatar) - Giving the airlocks a wide berth!{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/kiss.gif{/=}
I'm going to go back and read zuma posts and see if I can find anything interesting. Right now I'm leaning toward sitting on my current vote unless I find something that gives me a compelling reason to do so.
You mean besides all of the things mentioned?
Yes, I mean besides all of the things mentioned. Although my initial analysis leans me toward believing that zuma/dotchan is either Alliance scum or Reaver scum, I still want to finish the latter half of it before I decide--I was only at Page 12 before I had to leave. Part of my reluctance is due to the fact that every time I've placed a vote on someone, I've been wrong. I'm having trouble trusting my own judgment right now, so I'm doing what *I* need to do in order to make a decision and fully justify my own actions.
And since more than half of the dotchan votes came in a single afternoon, yes, I'd say it was a bandwagon. Not necessarily a bad one, but it seems to me to be driven more by "ah, fuck it" than anything else. I'm trying to see if I can find some really solid reasoning other than what's been stated so far, so I'm re-reading the thread and seeing where that gets me.
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1013 on Sept 18, 2007, 7:20am »
More zuma posts: --Post 359, says in agreement with hockeymonkey that from what he knows about his own role, a lot of the speculation around the usefulness of name-claiming is wrong. --Post 366, unvotes Idle and votes dnooman based on the "every man for himself" night post. Says that were it not for the slip, he'd be voting for WTF because he's trying to be under the radar. --Post 369, jokes with Cookies about M5 --Post 371, realizes that dnooman has posted less than WTF. --Post 379, says it's not inappropriate to be calling out lurkers at this point --Post 393, calls out Yattara for lurking in the game thread and posting in the BYPC thread. --Post 403, asks Mad if he's trying to act scummy and then FOS anyone who doesn't vote for him. --Post 515, says that Greedy Smurf's post
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1014 on Sept 18, 2007, 7:25am »
Dot it looks like you might be headed to the gallows. You had the minor power right? What might that be?
Based on your response, I'm going to either leave my vote, or vote for you.
I had the feeling that Zuma left because he was taking heat, and didn't want to lose the game for his small faction (read: scum). If we lynch you and you turn up just how you said, we at least have a little more info about how the game was designed. If we lynch you and you're scum, party at my place.
I was thinking more about Mad's claim, and wondering what the benefits of a two person mason group might be. Obviously, they know one other person is town (this is assuming his claim is true) and will not vote for or hammer the other guy. That's not much of a benefit to town IMO. If Mad's brother claims and verifies him as town we get two possible scenarios. Either they're both town, or both scum, or they point fingers at each other and we know that at least one is scum, so that scenario probably won't happen. Granted, this would reduce the pool of power roles that the scum have to choose from by one, but I think we might be able to use this to our advantage.
If we, as a town, ask that Mad's brother claim we get either no response, or a verification of some sort. If Mad's scum, surely a fellow scum isn't going to want to stick their neck out there also. If they do verify and Mad doesn't call the other guy a liar, we can be reasonably sure that they are both aligned the same way. If we have a cop type role, they can effectively get a twofer analysis of either both town or both scum. If the cop finds a scum in that pair, and we can get two in a row, it might even make sense for the cop to claim, report the scum, and have the doc protect the cop.
The above assumes a lot of things, two of which are that we have a Cop and Doc role. I'm sure I way have mis-worded something as well, but I'm sure I won't have to ask to be corrected if that's the case.
Anyways, that was a thought that occurred to me, we can take it or leave it depending on popular opinion.
[oog]I just passed the first half of my A+ certification exam today! I am quite happy about that, as the test was a real fucker. That is all.[/oog]
Re: Day 1 « Reply #1016 on Sept 18, 2007, 7:30am »
d'oh, hit Post Reply by mistake.
zuma continued: --Post 515, responds to a Greedy Smurf post and says that the mad/story fight was probably not a scum gambit, and wonders how Greedy knew that scum had the chance to talk on Night 1. --Post 527, warns people that they might get nightkilled if they quote role PMs too much, unvotes dnooman --Post 529, responds to diggit asking why people would get modkilled --Post 531, says specifically that dnooman and sinjin were the ones she was talking about. --Post 533, agrees with BLAM that people are tipping their hands by responding about their roles. --Post 546, agrees that not discussing role PM language is the right thing to do --Post 560, says that either the game is broken or insane, votes BLAM and FOSes Diomedes, gives no reasoning for either. --Post 568, says that Alliance citizens ARE vanilla townies. --Post 571, says that there should be no more discussion of the meaning of "Alliance citizens" and that at this point it's outed power roles or found scum. --Post 580, apologizes for getting that all messed up, unvotes BLAM --Post 584, again mentioned he assumed Alliance citizen was the role when it was not. (This all came down right before Roosh role claimed) --Post 673, asks to be replaced.
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Re: Day 1 « Reply #1017 on Sept 18, 2007, 7:40am »
Remind me never ever to go away for a weekend ever again.
Too much stuff happened, then counter-happened, then finished happening in the time I was gone, so I'm not going to comment on it all. I will, however, comment on one thing.
atarus has also claimed she is a fanatic about the show...I am confident she will agree with you and back my claim.
First of all, *points to the shiny little male symbol underneath my name.* Now that we've got that cleared up.
Please, please, PLEASE don't ever do that again. That goes to you and everybody else. Yes, I know stuff about Firefly. Yes, I know an abnormal amount when compared to other people. No, I'm not letting what I know affect my judgments about the game, as I feel that's meta-gaming and I want to stay away from that. Yes, that's only my opinion and I'm not going to enforce it on anybody else.
That being said, I will unvote MadTheSwine because I don't want to be voting for a possible Mason, even if said possible Mason has been acting oddly (albeit said possible Mason always acts oddly, but again, meta-gaming).
Now, as for the dotchan bandwagon. I understand where the votes are coming from, as I was thinking about voting for dotchan as I read through everything. The fact is, as pointed out by somebody a while ago (and I'm lazy and don't feel like searching through everything a second time right now), she said she didn't like the idea of vanilla townies role-claiming this early in the Day, and then when she got two or three votes immediately role-claimed vanilla townie.
However, I'm withholding putting my vote on her at this point because I think we're up to like what, nine people voting for her? Which is enough, I think, for the entire town to step back and go "is this the right decision?" before putting more votes on her. Obviously, everybody that's voted for her thinks it's the right decision. And some people who haven't voted for her have said "yeah, I think it's okay if dotchan's lynched today." But you know me, I like seeing all sides of the issue, and want to make sure everybody's on the same page before dotchan is sent on her merry way.
<snip> If we, as a town, ask that Mad's brother claim we get either no response, or a verification of some sort. If Mad's scum, surely a fellow scum isn't going to want to stick their neck out there also. If they do verify and Mad doesn't call the other guy a liar, we can be reasonably sure that they are both aligned the same way. If we have a cop type role, they can effectively get a twofer analysis of either both town or both scum. If the cop finds a scum in that pair, and we can get two in a row, it might even make sense for the cop to claim, report the scum, and have the doc protect the cop. <snip>
When I first started reading this, I thought it wasn't very pro-town at all. But then when you mentioned a cop and a doctor, it actually looked like a viable plan. The only problem is, we don't know if there's a cop and/or a doctor at this point. I think assuming that there is may be a safe assumption, though.